Palin’ on
September 12th, 2008 6:13 pm · 22 comments
Yeah, I know, another dry week … the rest of my life is just a LITTLE too busy now that the semester at seminary is under way … in the meantime I’ve been watching with horror the endless train wreck that is MSM coverage of Sarah Palin’s faith.
You would think Pentecostal is synonymous with “Islamist” or another theological dirty word, based on the way reporters have caricatured the Assemblies of God church in which Palin grew up. It’s another example of the Margaret-Mead-in-Samoa approach to religion that so many media outlets seem to specialize in. (And, FYI, I’ve been critical of coverage of Barack Obama’s faith.)
Newsweek’s Lisa Miller is, as always, consistent … consistently pushing my rant button. Her latest column expresses dismay that the pastor of Palin’s church believes people who don’t accept Christ are going to hell. News flash: A core tenet of Christianity — not just of the Wasilla Assembly of God — is that rejecting Jesus means eternal separation from God.
A religion columnist for a national newsweekly might want to research the subject before writing.
(Side note: Factcheck.org posted this piece debunking some of Palin’s alleged theocratic impulses, like banning books and teaching creationism. GetReligion has posted the full quote from Palin’s church appearance at which she prayed about the war in Iraq.)
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There are currently 22 comments on this blog postView Topic | Comment on this blogrunutz
9/12/08
6:59 PM | Best pun of the election season. Well played! |
justplainjoe
9/12/08
7:29 PM | it is like the islamists when she announces that god tasked our misreable war in iraq. that is something to be deeply ashamed of, not proud of, and certainly not something to blame god for.
what kind of god would do such an awful thing?
come on really, grow up.
any one who thinks god is somehow for the evil mess we made because we are americans is truly disturbed in the head, just like their polar opposites the islamic radicals.
here is a clue..if god has tasked us to do this dreaded deed, then by extension we can use suicide bombers as well, if they are needed, because, after all, this is god's dirty work. |
hadams
9/12/08
10:33 PM | The point is that she didn't say the war was God's will. She asked people to pray that the U.S. is doing the will of God in Iraq. That's a critical difference. The link to the quote in context is from GetReligion, but if you click the link in the GR post, you're taken to an MSM story on the subject.
Frankly, I don't think we're doing God's will in Iraq. But let's be fair to Palin. |
Kate
9/12/08
11:06 PM | The point is that she didn't say the war was God's will. She asked people to pray that the U.S. is doing the will of God in Iraq. That's a critical difference. The link to the quote in context is from GetReligion, but if you click the link in the GR post, you're taken to an MSM story on the subject.
Frankly, I don't think we're doing God's will in Iraq. But let's be fair to Palin.
Helen - you and I both know that no matter what Sarah Palin does or says she will be "crucified" and her words twisted around. Her interview with Charles Gibson was a pure hatchet job designed to bring out anything negative and little positive about her.
Despite the attempt to bring her down I thought she did well. She isn't perfect and does have much to learn. She has shaken up this presidential race. |
bigstew
9/13/08
4:08 AM | The point is that she didn't say the war was God's will. She asked people to pray that the U.S. is doing the will of God in Iraq. That's a critical difference. The link to the quote in context is from GetReligion, but if you click the link in the GR post, you're taken to an MSM story on the subject.
Frankly, I don't think we're doing God's will in Iraq. But let's be fair to Palin.
Don't waste your time. Joe has a hardon for christians and anti socialists. |
dragonrider
9/13/08
6:56 AM | [quote name='Lancaster Online' date='Sep 12 2008, 07:15 PM' post='436967']
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
[/quot Helen I am not sure why you used the reference to Islamist as if all Islamist are bad and being compared to one is an insult. I think the point you make about not making disparaging remarks about pentacostalists should also apply to Islamist. I find what Pentacostalist believe disturbing but hey its their right to believe it . I have no idea what Islamist believe but hey its their right to believe it. Islamist is not equal to terrorist or American hater. |
hadams
9/13/08
7:15 AM | Just to clarify: "Islamist" is the term currently in use to describe the brand of Islam advocated by the likes of Osama bin Laden -- the extremists who are OK with terrorism. It's not to include all Muslims. |
podunk
9/13/08
7:20 AM | "... for I know that the LORD is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the LORD'S side."
that is the Abraham Lincoln quote she was talking about
joe will never get it - his hate for all things christian runs much too deep |
dragonrider
9/13/08
11:13 AM | Just to clarify: "Islamist" is the term currently in use to describe the brand of Islam advocated by the likes of Osama bin Laden -- the extremists who are OK with terrorism. It's not to include all Muslims.
Then I misunderstood your use of the word. Words can be so slippery sometimes. |
Scout
9/13/08
2:13 PM | Every religion tends to be egocentric, and even within Christianity, each denomination feels they have it right. Personally, I think every belief system has some things right; and as a Christian, I think each denomination has some things right. MCC is my best fit, but I don't agree with EVERYTHING MCC does, I just happen to agree with more of it than any other I have tried.
We need to stop having to feel threatened by someone else's beliefs, be they Christian, Muslim, Judeo, Atheistic ... to stop feeling as though we have to prove we have it right. We have the right to practice our religion, not the right to force others to live within the tenets of that belief. We need morality, I agree ... but morality is not the sole province of any one religion. And there are plenty of "Christians" out there who have no verifiable moral fiber at all; calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean you act like one.
I don't care what color, what religion, what party affiliation, or what gender (or gender identity) a candidate is ... I want to know what they plan to do to start fixing the problems in this country ... and I want to SEE them put those plans in place once they are elected. I want someone who talks about what is wrong, how they think we need to work on fixing it, and keeps the mud and muck on in the pigsty where it belongs, not to use it to throw it into a fan and try to cover their own shortcomings. JMO |
Beth
9/13/08
2:35 PM | Every religion tends to be egocentric, and even within Christianity, each denomination feels they have it right. Personally, I think every belief system has some things right; and as a Christian, I think each denomination has some things right. MCC is my best fit, but I don't agree with EVERYTHING MCC does, I just happen to agree with more of it than any other I have tried.
We need to stop having to feel threatened by someone else's beliefs, be they Christian, Muslim, Judeo, Atheistic ... to stop feeling as though we have to prove we have it right. We have the right to practice our religion, not the right to force others to live within the tenets of that belief. We need morality, I agree ... but morality is not the sole province of any one religion. And there are plenty of "Christians" out there who have no verifiable moral fiber at all; calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean you act like one.I don't care what color, what religion, what party affiliation, or what gender (or gender identity) a candidate is ... I want to know what they plan to do to start fixing the problems in this country ... and I want to SEE them put those plans in place once they are elected. I want someone who talks about what is wrong, how they think we need to work on fixing it, and keeps the mud and muck on in the pigsty where it belongs, not to use it to throw it into a fan and try to cover their own shortcomings. JMO
Well put, thank you.
...and thank you HAdams for your blog. Nicely done. |
GeezUS
9/13/08
2:39 PM | The point is that she didn't say the war was God's will. She asked people to pray that the U.S. is doing the will of God in Iraq.
Wrong. Here's the actual quote:
"That our leaders... our national leaders are sending them out on a task from God."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H-btXPfhGs
Mrs. Murphy: The Blues Brothers? Shiiit! They still owe you money, fool.
Jake: Ma'am, would it make you feel any better if we told you that what we're asking Matthew to do is a holy thing?
Elwood: You see, we're on a mission from God.
Mrs. Murphy: Don't you blaspheme in here! Don't you blaspheme in here! |
tourman
9/13/08
2:56 PM | I guess JFK would never make it as a Democrat in today's world...He relied on God to guide him as well.
Guess that was ok back then.....
Remarks given by President John F. Kennedy at the 9th annual Presidential Prayer Breakfast held in Washington, D.C., on February 9, 1961.
“No man who enters upon the office to which I have succeeded can fail to recognize how every president of the United States has placed special reliance upon his faith in God…While they came from a variety of religious backgrounds and held a wide variety of religious beliefs, each of our presidents in his own way has placed a special trust in God. Those who were the strongest intellectually were also the strongest spiritually.
“Today our nation is passing through another time of trial. In many ways, our dangers and our problems are far greater – and certainly infinitely more complex…. It is an ironic fact that in this nuclear age, when the horizon of human knowledge and human experience has passed far beyond any that any age has ever known, that we turn back at this time to the oldest source of wisdom and strength, to the words of the prophets and the saints, who tell us that faith is more powerful than doubt, that hope is more potent than despair, and that only through the love that is sometimes called charity can we conquer those forces within ourselves and throughout all the world that threaten the very existence of mankind.
“Keeping in mind that ‘when a man’s ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him,’ let us go forth to lead this land that we love, joining in the prayer of General George Washington in 1783, ‘that God would have you in the His holy protection, that He would incline the hearts of the citizens...to entertain a brotherly love and affection one for another…and finally that He would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with…the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, without an humble invitation of whose example we can never hope to be a happy nation.’ The guiding principle and prayer of this Nation has been, is now, and ever shall be ‘In God We Trust.’”
I believe Governor Palin was following this example.. |
hadams
9/13/08
3:03 PM | QUOTE Palin asked the congregation to "pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
Context is helpful.....This is asking people to pray that the task is something God wants the nation to do. As I said before, I doubt the war is what God wants us to do.
|
lee41
9/13/08
5:35 PM | On 'book banning':
Palin does not ask rhetorical questions. If they were only rhetorical, the librarian would not have been fired.
So let's connect the dots: Palin asks Emmons on more than one occasion about how Emmons would respond if Palin asked for some books to be banned. Emmons said she would oppose. "Even if residents picketed the library?" After Emmons stood her ground, Palin fired her. The librarian was rehired by Palin after resident outrage.
So that fact that Palin never actually banned books, and the librarian was rehired, nothing happened? |
Wonder
9/13/08
5:51 PM | Well !!!! But the important part is that she would have and she could have, if she actually had fired the Librarian.
This is beginning to sound like how much wood would a wood chuck chuck....etc! |
mam0412
9/13/08
5:58 PM | Helen - you and I both know that no matter what Sarah Palin does or says she will be "crucified" and her words twisted around. Her interview with Charles Gibson was a pure hatchet job designed to bring out anything negative and little positive about her.
Despite the attempt to bring her down I thought she did well. She isn't perfect and does have much to learn. She has shaken up this presidential race.
On the contrary. The interview was designed to discuss her foreign policy credentials. I thought Gibson held remarkable restraint. His questions were very elementary considering the level of understanding she should have to be at this level of politics, and she failed miserably. The country isn't interviewing her for an on-the-job training program. She's shaken up the race because we're all baffled by McCain's choice and judgement. |
lee41
9/13/08
8:13 PM | Well !!!! But the important part is that she would have and she could have, if she actually had fired the Librarian.
This is beginning to sound like how much wood would a wood chuck chuck....etc!
She fired the librarian, then after public outcry unfired her. She questioned her loyalty - about banning books. |
BeingReal
9/13/08
10:27 PM | She fired the librarian, then after public outcry unfired her. She questioned her loyalty - about banning books.
From Factcheck.org:
QUOTE Not a Book Burner
One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire Wasilla’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books.
It’s true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla’s librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition each time. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla’s local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "
Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as “rhetorical,” noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., “Who do you think you are?”), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library’s shelves.
Continued (very interesting information in the last paragraph, which I've highlighted):
QUOTE Palin initially requested Emmons’ resignation, along with those of Wasilla’s other department heads, in October 1996. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all of them (except one, whose department she was eliminating) to retain their positions. But in January 1997, Palin fired Emmons, along with the police chief. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons’ firing, but said she didn’t feel she had Emmons’ support. The decision caused “a stir” in the small town, according to a newspaper account at the time. According to a widely circulated e-mail from Kilkenny, “city residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.”
As we’ve noted, Palin did not attempt to ban any library books. We don’t know if Emmons’ resistance to Palin’s questions about possible censorship had anything to do with Emmons’ firing. And we have no idea if the protests had any impact on Palin at all. There simply isn’t any evidence that we can find either way. Palin did re-hire Emmons the following day, saying that she now felt she had the librarian’s backing. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.
So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken “from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board”? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as “Books banned at one time or another in the United States.”
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html |
lee41
9/14/08
12:16 AM | From FactCheck:
QUOTE It’s true that Palin did raise the issue [banning books] with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla’s librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions.
From the Frontiersman:
QUOTE But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books.
Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book.
From FactCheck:
QUOTE The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day.
From the ADN:
QUOTE City librarian Mary Ellen Emmons will stay, but Police Chief Irl Stambaugh is on his own, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin announced Friday. The decision came one day after letters signed by Palin were dropped on Stambaugh's and Emmon's desks, telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13.
The mayor told them she appreciated their service but felt it was time for a change. ''I do not feel I have your full support in my efforts to govern the city of Wasilla. Therefore I intend to terminate your employment ...'' the letter said.
Palin said Friday she now feels Emmons supports her but does not feel the same about Stambaugh. As to what prompted the change, Palin said she now has Emmons' assurance that she is behind her. She refused to give details about how Stambaugh has not supported her, saying only that ''You know in your heart when someone is supportive of you.''
Nice way to be terminated - a letter on your desk when you come in in the morning.
From the ADN: http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
QUOTE According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with [banning books]. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job. |
june w.
9/14/08
1:10 AM | The point is that she didn't say the war was God's will. She asked people to pray that the U.S. is doing the will of God in Iraq. That's a critical difference. The link to the quote in context is from GetReligion, but if you click the link in the GR post, you're taken to an MSM story on the subject.
Frankly, I don't think we're doing God's will in Iraq. But let's be fair to Palin.
She should have just hoped that time would prove that we were doing the right thing and left G-d out of it. When I think of Assemblies of God my mind goes immediately to Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker... unfortunately that is just the way it is. They epitomized this organization and the hypocrisy of it for many people like myself. It is hard to take seriously this church since that debacle, even though it was 20 years ago. How many were bilked out of their money in the name of salvation? And yes, I know they were former Assembly of God members, but so is Palin. I don't think we need another person in the White House that goes with gut feelings and prays for the right answers instead of using logic and the information in front of them. |
dragonrider
9/14/08
2:45 AM | She should have just hoped that time would prove that we were doing the right thing and left G-d out of it. When I think of Assemblies of God my mind goes immediately to Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker... unfortunately that is just the way it is. They epitomized this organization and the hypocrisy of it for many people like myself. It is hard to take seriously this church since that debacle, even though it was 20 years ago. How many were bilked out of their money in the name of salvation? And yes, I know they were former Assembly of God members, but so is Palin. I don't think we need another person in the White House that goes with gut feelings and prays for the right answers instead of using logic and the information in front of them.
Further do we need another administrator that fires and hires people based on how good Bushie they are or in her case how loyal Palinite. |
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