Gib v. Philly
May 28th, 2008 7:23 am · 23 comments
State Sen. Gib Armstrong has taken his fair share of jabs at Philadelphia in the past few years. On Monday, though, the retiring Republican from Solanco penned an op-ed in The Philadelphia Inquirer slamming the city for its fight with the Boy Scouts over its ban on gays.
The Cradle of Liberty Council currently pays $1 annually for its space now, but the city has given it until Saturday to open membership to gays or start being charged fair-market rent — $200,000. The Scouts have sued the city in federal court.
“The choice given the scouts was an impossible one: accept a local policy they cannot abide by, or pay an escalated rent they cannot afford,” Armstrong wrote. “This unfortunate and unnecessary confrontation has already had repercussions, cutting into contributions, which in turn leads to cuts in staffing and programming and puts the participation rate at risk. This is a clear case of a political agenda being put ahead of the interests of tens of thousands of inner-city kids.”
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2000 that the Boy Scouts, as a private group, have a First Amendment right to bar gays. But the policy has had consequences, with municipalities, charities and donors withholding support.
“Philadelphia’s advocates are often mystified why Pennsylvania taxpayers are reluctant to pump additional money into the city,” Armstrong continued. “One of the reasons is that people in other parts of the state are frequently appalled by the actions they see, where the hopeful words said do not match the counterproductive actions taken by city government.”
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&layer=c&msa=0&ll=39.959524,-75.175452&spn=0.016776,0.034676&t=p&z=15&msid=114583682617760697320.00044e48c4c9091d3fad1
Armstrong, who is chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, went on to write: “The timing is sadly ironic in another way: The city is giving the back of its hand to the Boy Scouts at the same time it is reaching out the other hand for tens of millions of dollars more from state taxpayers. What lesson is being taught? Any organization, no matter how long its tradition, no matter how strong its record of commitment, no matter how many youths it serves, may fall victim to an outburst of political correctness. Philadelphia, which has run a lot of expensive tourism ads in recent months, once again comes across as a city where common sense is too often on vacation.”
Share and Enjoy:
These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
Tags: Uncategorized
There are currently 23 comments on this blog postView Topic | Comment on this blogScout
5/28/08
7:55 AM | QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ May 28 2008, 07:25 AM) [snapback]394285[/snapback]
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
And now Gib is trying to directly discrimminate against kids. Why?
BSA doesn't want gay boys any more than they want gay leaders, and leaders will not intervene if a boy is being harassed if someone "thinks" he is gay. Think not? Don't bet on it.
It is one thing to discrimminate against adults who have a chance of fighting back, but when you start closing the door against kids/adolescents who are already struggling with identity, self worth, and peer pressure, all you are doing is hurting the kids.
|
grieker
5/28/08
8:14 AM | QUOTE(Scout @ May 28 2008, 07:55 AM) [snapback]394289[/snapback]
And now Gib is trying to directly discrimminate against kids. Why?
BSA doesn't want gay boys any more than they want gay leaders, and leaders will not intervene if a boy is being harassed if someone "thinks" he is gay. Think not? Don't bet on it.
It is one thing to discrimminate against adults who have a chance of fighting back, but when you start closing the door against kids/adolescents who are already struggling with identity, self worth, and peer pressure, all you are doing is hurting the kids.
Have a new organization called Gay Scouts America (GSA) let them have their camping fun and craft making and badge earning on their own merit.
|
The Logical One
5/28/08
8:45 AM | Gib,
Do you honestly think it is okay for a subsidized entity like BSA to exclude homosexuals from their organization? I don't.
Thanks for embarrassing Lancaster County.
|
Artie See
5/28/08
8:55 AM | I find it curious that State Sen. Gib Armstrong would dare to bite the hand that feeds him. Then again, State Sen. Gib Armstrong IS a "lame duck".
State Sen. Gib Armstrong has repeatedly made overt or covert deals with the big boys from Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to bargain for their votes to support HIS pet projects, in exchange for his own vote to support THEIR pet projects. For example, State Sen. Gib Armstrong agreed to support massive taxpayer giveaways for professional sports stadiums in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh IN EXCHANGE FOR their senators' support for his changes in the convention center laws.
However, State Sen. Armstrong needs to be VERY careful to not burn any bridges just yet. Lancaster City alone needs AT LEAST $21 million in "earmarks" for special interest projects before State Sen. Gib Armstrong's term expires. |
Solancoforever
5/28/08
1:39 PM | So what about the Girl Scouts? They pay for all their own space and always have. The Philadelphia Girl Scout Council came up with the idea and was the first in the country to sell Girl Scout Cookies which has become the organizations biggest money maker. Other than acknowledgement of that fact historically they never received anything to reward them.
Forgetting all this other stuff, why do the Boy Scouts continue to get a free ride and the Girl Scouts have to pay through the nose? Perhaps the city should give the building to the Girl Scouts for a while in a show of equality and fairness.
I'm not a feminist by any stretch but after a while I just shake my head. |
2fat2ride
5/28/08
1:51 PM | QUOTE(Solancoforever @ May 28 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]394518[/snapback] So what about the Girl Scouts? They pay for all their own space and always have. The Philadelphia Girl Scout Council came up with the idea and was the first in the country to sell Girl Scout Cookies which has become the organizations biggest money maker. Other than acknowledgement of that fact historically they never received anything to reward them.
Forgetting all this other stuff, why do the Boy Scouts continue to get a free ride and the Girl Scouts have to pay through the nose? Perhaps the city should give the building to the Girl Scouts for a while in a show of equality and fairness.
I'm not a feminist by any stretch but after a while I just shake my head.
Fantastic idea! Saves face, gets the message out to the public, while still sending a strong message to the BSA and their leadership.
You should send that one off to their mayor. I would give you a badge for that idea.
|
dragonrider
5/28/08
2:45 PM | The courts decided that the BSA could discriminate but state governments can not. If the organization is not open to everyone then they are required to pay full costs of the facilities thats the law whats wrong with fundies that they can't understand that. You want a social institution for your kiddies without homos then you gotta pay the piper, you can't pay the piper too bad its not up to the government to support your desire for a social organizition for your kiddies you need to become self reliant and quit relying on big government to support your fundie beliefs.
|
harv1
5/28/08
3:09 PM | Perhaps the difference, and thus the ignoring, is the fact that the GSA does not discriminate on the basis of gender preference. Any and all girls are welcome to become scouts.
I recall checking the United Way's allocation of their funds a while back when asked to give at work. I discovered that their 'gifts' to the BSA outdistanced their gifts to the GSA. (that may have changed by now, it would be interesting to find out).
Since, last I heard, 51% of the pop. are women, it 'wondered' me why the BSA received more United Way funding than the GSA. So I chose to donate directly to the GSA and bypass contributing to the United Way. |
Daisy Lee Myers
5/28/08
3:21 PM | fyi-
read below
BSA has lost a lot of private fundings over the years..
Boy Scouts Anti-gay Discrimination Against Gay Scouts and Gay Troop Leaders
http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:pNCJg.../boyscouts.html
QUOTE(dragonrider @ May 28 2008, 02:45 PM) [snapback]394560[/snapback] The courts decided that the BSA could discriminate but state governments can not. If the organization is not open to everyone then they are required to pay full costs of the facilities thats the law whats wrong with fundies that they can't understand that. You want a social institution for your kiddies without homos then you gotta pay the piper, you can't pay the piper too bad its not up to the government to support your desire for a social organizition for your kiddies you need to become self reliant and quit relying on big government to support your fundie beliefs.
NO BASIS FOR POLICY: OTHER YOUTH GROUPS DON'T BAN GAYS
"The Girls Scouts of America, the YMCA, 4-H clubs, Boys & Girls Clubs of America and Jewish community groups, don't exclude gays." (USA Today, 10/10/00)
Canada's Boy Scouts permit gay troops. (Toronto Globe and Mail, 6/19/00)
FAIR-MINDED AMERICANS ARE DROPPING THE SCOUTS
|
dragonrider
5/28/08
8:31 PM | QUOTE(Daisy Lee Myers @ May 28 2008, 03:21 PM) [snapback]394576[/snapback] fyi- read below BSA has lost a lot of private fundings over the years.. Boy Scouts Anti-gay Discrimination Against Gay Scouts and Gay Troop Leaders http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:pNCJg.../boyscouts.html NO BASIS FOR POLICY: OTHER YOUTH GROUPS DON'T BAN GAYS "The Girls Scouts of America, the YMCA, 4-H clubs, Boys & Girls Clubs of America and Jewish community groups, don't exclude gays." (USA Today, 10/10/00) Canada's Boy Scouts permit gay troops. (Toronto Globe and Mail, 6/19/00) FAIR-MINDED AMERICANS ARE DROPPING THE SCOUTS |
LicenseForMayhem
5/29/08
2:05 AM | QUOTE(harv1 @ May 28 2008, 03:09 PM) [snapback]394574[/snapback]
Since, last I heard, 51% of the pop. are women, it 'wondered' me why the BSA received more United Way funding than the GSA. So I chose to donate directly to the GSA and bypass contributing to the United Way.
If, for some reason, you do want to give through the United Way, they usually allow you to designate to which organization your entire donation goes. Sometimes they don't mention this upfront, though...
|
Scout
5/29/08
6:04 AM | QUOTE(harv1 @ May 28 2008, 03:09 PM) [snapback]394574[/snapback] Perhaps the difference, and thus the ignoring, is the fact that the GSA does not discriminate on the basis of gender preference. Any and all girls are welcome to become scouts.
I have been a member of GSUSA since I was seven years old. The organization knows I am gay, some of my former troop members know I am gay, have met Sprouting. Heck, there are staff who are out; I attended a 10th anniversary party for one of them and her partner, most of the guests were GS staff and volunteers.
One of our women at church has two boys, 12 and 10. They wanted to join BSA, so she looked into it. She was told that she and her partner would not be welcome at any pack events. When she told the boys, they no longer wanted to be part of it. If BSA didn't want their moms, they didn't want BSA. What exactly do they think a lesbian is going to do to the kids???
GSUSA has it's problems, don't get me wrong, but one thing we don't do is discrimminate against kids or adults. Ya'll remember several years ago when we "took God out of the Promise"? God forbid we acknowledge that some girls out there aren't Christians.
We had a push a couple years back that "Girl Scouts are more than cookies and camping". People hear the words "Girl Scouts" and the first thing that comes to mind is cookies ... not sports or science activities, not community service, not entrepreneurship ... cookies.
People still try to fit girls into the old stereotypes of happy homemaker, stay at home, barefoot and pregnant, let the man support you ... so Girl Scouts isn't important. Boy Scouts teaches you how to be a man, swing the club and make fire  , so it is important. The days of mom at home, dad at work are long gone. We are in days of 2+ income households. We need to do everything we can to make sure that both boys and girls have the skills they need to be productive members of society. Both BSA and GSUSA do that; we just need to make sure kids are taking advantage of those opportunities.
:::stepping off soapbox:::
|
Bigby_M
5/29/08
6:20 AM | Why not start a new group "The Armstrong Youth". They can model it after that other fuhrer who had his own youth group and hated gays.  |
dragonrider
5/29/08
12:04 PM | QUOTE(Bigby_M @ May 29 2008, 06:20 AM) [snapback]394760[/snapback] Why not start a new group "The Armstrong Youth". They can model it after that other fuhrer who had his own youth group and hated gays. |
ace1969
5/29/08
12:27 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ May 28 2008, 08:31 PM) [snapback]394664[/snapback] Agreed, BSA can discriminate all it wants but not with my tax dollars. You want to discriminate pay your own way its the republican way of self reliance. But personally I think BSA needs to drop its discriminatory practice but they have a right to discriminate just not at the taxpayers expense.
Why is having an organization who only allows people who fit a certain criteria discriminatory? Girl Scouts are girls. Masons (who I disagree with on many levels) have to be men. Shiners have to be Masons. Men's clubs are for men. Women's are for women. While I do understand the financial aspects of the argument I do not see why an organizations membership being based on a shared set of beliefs is considered as discriminatory? Now the members of an organization may themselves discriminate against others (Mason again), but they are already part of the group.
|
harv1
5/29/08
12:58 PM | ace: I think it is more about the public funding of a group that discriminates not only against kids but if their parents are gay then the kids aren't allowed to fully participate which is also a form of discrimination.
There are many groups that discriminate or exclude or are only for one 'sort' as you have pointed out above. I question the public funding for a group that should be calling itself Straight Boy Scouts of America.
And while I'm on my own soapbox, why do they let girls play t-ball with the boys but once they reach a certain age, the girls are shuttled into softball and excluded from baseball in many places?
The United Way says it all in their name.... but they don't practice what they call themselves.
|
dragonrider
5/29/08
1:10 PM | Absolutely and that is what I said Boy Scouts can exclude anyone they want, I really don't give a hoot but not at the tax payers expense. Call it the Straight Christian Scouts of the CSA if you want just pay your own way just like the Masons and Shriners etal. |
ace1969
5/29/08
1:13 PM | QUOTE(harv1 @ May 29 2008, 12:58 PM) [snapback]395045[/snapback] ace: I think it is more about the public funding of a group that discriminates not only against kids but if their parents are gay then the kids aren't allowed to fully participate which is also a form of discrimination.
There are many groups that discriminate or exclude or are only for one 'sort' as you have pointed out above. I question the public funding for a group that should be calling itself Straight Boy Scouts of America.
And while I'm on my own soapbox, why do they let girls play t-ball with the boys but once they reach a certain age, the girls are shuttled into softball and excluded from baseball in many places?
The United Way says it all in their name.... but they don't practice what they call themselves.
I agree with you. I agree that if an organization is receiving public funds and is outside current legal lines that they should not receive them. However, I keep seeing little between the lines phrases calling groups discriminatory or bigots because they stand against something.
|
dragonrider
5/29/08
1:22 PM | QUOTE(ace1969 @ May 29 2008, 01:13 PM) [snapback]395057[/snapback]
I agree with you. I agree that if an organization is receiving public funds and is outside current legal lines that they should not receive them. However, I keep seeing little between the lines phrases calling groups discriminatory or bigots because they stand against something.
any group that excludes one group over another is by definition descriminatory, not that all discrimination is bad but perhaps its loaded language. But the BSA has a right to not include gays if they so choose but it is wrong then to expect state supported free rent for meeting or free use of park facilities.
But hey a lot of these folks are by definition Bigots and seem to be proud of their Bigotry so why not call a spade a spade. |
ace1969
5/29/08
1:53 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ May 29 2008, 01:22 PM) [snapback]395063[/snapback] any group that excludes one group over another is by definition descriminatory, not that all discrimination is bad but perhaps its loaded language. But the BSA has a right to not include gays if they so choose but it is wrong then to expect state supported free rent for meeting or free use of park facilities.
But hey a lot of these folks are by definition Bigots and seem to be proud of their Bigotry so why not call a spade a spade.
I see your point. But, when you include statements and verbiage like this can you see why some of us before defensive? If a group wishes for a sense of equality striving for that is fine. However, to refer to someone as a bigot just because we have differing points of view lessens the ability to have a constructive debate. Just about everyone on here knows that I do not support a homosexual lifestyle based on Biblical standings. But I do not feel that that makes me a bigot.
|
dragonrider
5/29/08
2:21 PM | QUOTE(ace1969 @ May 29 2008, 01:53 PM) [snapback]395101[/snapback]
I see your point. But, when you include statements and verbiage like this can you see why some of us before defensive? If a group wishes for a sense of equality striving for that is fine. However, to refer to someone as a bigot just because we have differing points of view lessens the ability to have a constructive debate. Just about everyone on here knows that I do not support a homosexual lifestyle based on Biblical standings. But I do not feel that that makes me a bigot.
Yeah but my bible requires me to condemn the bigot lifestyle. |
Scout
5/29/08
5:07 PM | QUOTE(ace1969 @ May 29 2008, 01:53 PM) [snapback]395101[/snapback] Just about everyone on here knows that I do not support a homosexual lifestyle based on Biblical standings. But I do not feel that that makes me a bigot.
I agree, you are not a bigot; the people who actively try to engender discrimination, against ANY group of people, are bigots. Having a strong belief isn't bigotry, how it is expressed can be. IMO, of course.
|
dragonrider
5/29/08
6:30 PM | There was a time in america that blacks were seperated from whites by law. At that time there were religous arguments about seperation as well. The story of the Tower of Babel were used to justify a biblical reason for seperation of the races. The story of Cain and Abel were applied to Blacks as it was stated all blacks bore the mark of Cain. Today we would call these beliefs misguided and the people who believed them bigoted, but a whole culture was based on seperation and discrimination of black people. How is that different now when the same misguided reading of the bible is used to seperate and discriminate against gay people. Jim Crow laws were bad then they are bad now. |
View Topic | Comment on this blog
