I don't know...last night Obama said one thing and the police are saying another thing re: Gates either cooperating by showing his ID or refusing to show his ID.

The cop will not apologize and is steadfast that he did everything by the book. That Gates refused to show his ID for awhile and after he did he flliped out. This sounds like a professor who needs a little attention for what ever reason...is he tenured? Does he need subject matter for class at Hahvahd?

So Rude Pundit belives that all white men who value their gun rights belive it only applies to white people? Pretty far fetched.

Meanwhile the President should have stayed out of this mess, who came off bad even after a terrible press conference. By calling the Cambridge Police "stupid"...not smart. I think their was a collective rolling of the eyes across the nation at that point.

Gates has been at Harvard since 1991. He's one of the foremost literary critics in America. He's written 11 books and served as editor on 5. I don't think he needs "a little attention." As an English major, there are two names that I see most frequently. Harold Bloom and Henry Louis Gates.

But you're probably right. This is all a manufactured publicity stunt based on feigned outrage. Got it.

great find, Gil. And food for thought. How is it that potential insurrectionists saying "From my cold dead hands" are Heroes and Patriots, but a man who resents having to present ID in his own home has "flipped out"?

And the award for "I haven't been paying attention. What's going on?" goes to....

ArtVandolay for "This sounds like a professor who needs a little attention for what ever reason...is he tenured?"

great find, Gil. And food for thought. How is it that potential insurrectionists saying "From my cold dead hands" are Heroes and Patriots, but a man who resents having to present ID in his own home has "flipped out"?

And the award for "I haven't been paying attention. What's going on?" goes to....

ArtVandolay for "This sounds like a professor who needs a little attention for what ever reason...is he tenured?"

Thank you for the award...I am sure everyone who reads a newspaper or a news magazine is very familiar with Mr. Gates work.

I mean wow, even before this happened he was just everywhere.
When is his next book to be published?

Thank you for the award...I am sure everyone who reads a newspaper or a news magazine is very familiar with Mr. Gates work.

I mean wow, even before this happened he was just everywhere.
When is his next book to be published?

So now white men with guns are potential insurrectionists? But Gates isn't a racist?

Please.

I'm a white man with several guns. I have served this country proudly as a military officer and can hardly imagine a situation in which I would find myself participating in an insurrection against its government.

Had Gates been in possession of a gun and threatened to use it, he would have proven himself a fool. In no circumstance is it acceptable to even suggest the use of violence against police. Doing so in this thread is a red-herring meant to turn the direction of the argument away from criticizing Gates.

He deserves criticism.

The argument being made is this: Why aren't these same people who are so proud of their Constitutional right to bear arms that they'd fight for them to the death equally alarmed when a man can be arrested in his own house even after proving he lived there?

If this had happened to say, Ted Nugent, the gun owners would be frothing at the mouth right now, saying, "This is what happens in Obama's America!".

That's the argument people are making. Nobody is suggesting Gates should have armed himself and drew down with police officers. Nobody is suggesting that. At all.

And that's the point, isnt it? He wasn't arrested in his own home after having proved he lived there.

He was arrested OUTSIDE of his home, after the officer left the home and after he decided to pursue the officer outside of the home screaming, accusing the officer of racism and generally disturbing the peace.

You say the cop should have defused the situation. HE LEFT. Gates escalated by following the cop.

The cop in NO WAY tried to rob Gates of any constitutional right. Comparing this situation to a cop coming to a house to take guns just doesn't make any sense. The cop in no way tried to take anything from Gates. The cop tried to verify that a person found in a property which was reportedly being burglarized had a lawful reason to be there. Had Gates been an adult about the situation, the cop would have said "Thank you Dr. Gates, have a nice day," and been on his merry way.

Instead Gates turned it into a huge freaking scene. Over what? Pride? Tell me what he had to lose by showing the cop his ID? Please tell me.

Big difference between the Gates debacle and the reduction of constitutional rights.

I've asked you before but you've glossed over it, what would you expect the police to do if there was a man screaming and making a scene in the middle of your neighborhood? It'd be cool to just let him do as he pleased, right?

Of course not. You'd be on the phone to the 5-0 faster than you could say "annoyed taxpayer." Most reasonable people would as well. That's what they are paid for.

Thank you for the award...I am sure everyone who reads a newspaper or a news magazine is very familiar with Mr. Gates work.

I mean wow, even before this happened he was just everywhere.
When is his next book to be published?

Even with no prior knowledge of his work, if someone had read even one article about Dr Gate's arrest, it would have been difficult to not come across words such as "Harvard professor", "acclaimed author" or "renowned scholar".

The bottom line is.......regarless of who he is or isn't ..........if he would have just handed over the ID and said, "I live here" we wouldn't be having this converstation................PERIOD!!!!

Every account I've read of the incident DOES having him handing over his ID. Perhaps not with the alacrity demanded by the police officer, and perhaps not without attitude, but he did comply.

Instead Gates turned it into a huge freaking scene.

The bottom line is.......regarless of who he is or isn't ..........if he would have just handed over the ID and said, "I live here" we wouldn't be having this converstation................PERIOD!!!!

The bottom line is.......regarless of who he is or isn't ..........if he would have just handed over the ID and said, "I live here" we wouldn't be having this converstation................PERIOD!!!!

So says you. Have you every been asked to prove you live in your home by a police officer? And after you've proved it, have you been arrested for becoming irrate for asking that same cop to prove he has the authority to question your residency? Please stop with the absolutes.

Hmm, interesting perspecitve. A HUGE freaking scene. A scene you knew nothing about until 2 days ago when it was brought up in a Presidential press conference. You seem to be supporting the officer 100%. Do you think there may be a possibility the officer is lying? Your first instinct seems to be to trust the white guy.


But Gates said he did show the ID. Why do you not believe him? I think even the cop acknowledged he showed the ID.

The police didn't just randomly stop by a black professor's house to make him prove he belonged there. The police were called to report a "break-in". They arrived at the scene to stop a robbery/burglary. How would they know who belongs at that home until proof is shown!

If the police had not shown up in response to the 911 report of a break-in, and the professor had been burglarized, all the hoop-de-doo would be about the racism of the police in ignoring calls to blacks' residences.

If one of my kids had come home for a surprise visit, found they didn't have my key with them and I wasn't home, and been "breaking in" to our home, and a passerby Good Samaritan phoned in a "break-in", I would expect my kids to be polite to the officers who showed up, doing their job, trying to protect my property. I would thank the police for doing their job, instead of accusing them of racism and profiling and venting rage and anger on them! The police would have no way of knowing the people breaking in to my house belong here!!!

I think what you are all looking past is the fact that he did produce his id. He proved to the officer, as written in the officer's report, that he was the legal resident. The issue is not that the officer requested the identification, it is the arrest that followed. Now, had the officer complied with Mr Gates' request for his name and badge number, which is his right, and this would have happened, I'd agree with your assessment. But as I see it, the officer made a stupid error in judgement arresting this man in his own home.

MSNBC just had an extensive discussion which brought out these "facts":

There have been a rash of break-ins in Gates' neighborhood.
Gates home was broken into recently while he was on vacation.
There was still damage to the front door of Gates' home.
The 911 call came from a passerby.
The i.d. he produced was not a license etc. It was a simple card with only his name on it, not an address.

All the while all this is unfolding, Prof. Gates is becoming more and more angry and hostile. He is the one who escalated this incident. He is the one who made it racial. And President Obama made it more so.

If this had been a real burglary (a second burglary), and the man breaking in had said, "I live here, and forgot my key", and officers, afraid of being called racists and profilers, had smiled and said, "Okay then. Have a nice day." this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again.

Please post a link to this epiphany, it appears you are the only one with access.

Hmm, interesting perspecitve. A HUGE freaking scene. A scene you knew nothing about until 2 days ago when it was brought up in a Presidential press conference. You seem to be supporting the officer 100%. Do you think there may be a possibility the officer is lying? Your first instinct seems to be to trust the white guy.


But Gates said he did show the ID. Why do you not believe him? I think even the cop acknowledged he showed the ID.

It's not that I don't believe him. He gave them a hard time out of the gate and finally after all the hubbub gave in and gave it to them. I would like to think that he wouldn't have been harrassed if he would have honored their request out of the gate. If I were a police officer and someone refused to show me their ID I would get a bit testy with the perp just as they did-I don't give a rip what color their skin is. I guess I'm just so sick of the race card always being thrown around. I honestly believe that if he would have just given the officer his ID out of the gate then none of this BS would be happening. Period!

Gil-- you picked a scab as usual!
BUT: I have a different take on this:

? WHAT IF MR. GATES HAD BEEN A WHITEY ? -- and flipped out like he did..

I don't know...last night Obama said one thing and the police are saying another thing re: Gates either cooperating by showing his ID or refusing to show his ID.

The cop will not apologize and is steadfast that he did everything by the book. That Gates refused to show his ID for awhile and after he did he flliped out. This sounds like a professor who needs a little attention for what ever reason...is he tenured? Does he need subject matter for class at Hahvahd?

So Rude Pundit belives that all white men who value their gun rights belive it only applies to white people? Pretty far fetched.

Meanwhile the President should have stayed out of this mess, who came off bad even after a terrible press conference. By calling the Cambridge Police "stupid"...not smart. I think their was a collective rolling of the eyes across the nation at that point.

Obama commented stupidly.

There will be no Bill before August for the President to sign, Harry reid is letting it go for now...our Legislture will go home and her what their constituants have to say, and hopefully are non partisan bill can be crafted.

key House committee chairman on Friday threatened to roll over moderate Democrats who are holding up the health care reform bill and bring the package straight to the floor. The statement underscored the deep divisions the health care reform debate is causing in the ranks of the Democratic Party.

Fiscally conservative Blue Dogs are holding up the bill in the House Energy and Commerce Committee over cost concerns and other issues. But Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., on Friday accused those Democrats of empowering Republicans.

"I won't allow them to turn over control of the committee to the Republicans," Waxman said, threatening to bypass the committee process.

"I don't see what alternative we have," Waxman said of talks that have raged for days with the Blue Dogs. "This can't be an interminable discussion."

The radical move would mean Waxman would finish writing the bill in private and merge it with the two bills that have already passed out of the committee in the chamber before bringing it to the floor.

So says you. Have you every been asked to prove you live in your home by a police officer? And after you've proved it, have you been arrested for becoming irrate for asking that same cop to prove he has the authority to question your residency? Please stop with the absolutes.

I have been asked to prove I own the house I was in.

I wasn't arrested because I caused NO disturbance.

I didn't follow the officer outside loudly proclaiming the was a racist (he was not the same race as I) and I didn't continue to loudly proclaim after being told to calm down.

MSNBC just had an extensive discussion which brought out these "facts":

There have been a rash of break-ins in Gates' neighborhood.
Gates home was broken into recently while he was on vacation.
There was still damage to the front door of Gates' home.
The 911 call came from a passerby.
The i.d. he produced was not a license etc. It was a simple card with only his name on it, not an address.

All the while all this is unfolding, Prof. Gates is becoming more and more angry and hostile. He is the one who escalated this incident. He is the one who made it racial. And President Obama made it more so.

If this had been a real burglary (a second burglary), and the man breaking in had said, "I live here, and forgot my key", and officers, afraid of being called racists and profilers, had smiled and said, "Okay then. Have a nice day." this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again.

Come on. There would be no controversy if Gates was a "whitey", he would have been invisible to the passerby.

Except our President wouldn't have bothered to defend him or have the charges dropped.

There would have been no controversy because it would have been handled exactly the same way. If 'Whitey' would have gone over the top he would have been arrested too. You know it and everybody else does too. The only difference would have been the charge lf 'racism'. This is the point.

Except our President wouldn't have bothered to defend him or have the charges dropped.

? Was the neighbor that called '911' white or black. Does THAT make a difference to you? Do you think in the cover of darkness the neighbor could tell the color of the person supposedley breaking into the house that had been recently (legitimately) broken into? Is color at play here?

Point: You can project RACE into darned near every discussion if you so choose.

Don't suspect that there are many 58 year old burglars who walk with a cane.

Now I wrote a very conciliatory post on the other thread about Dr Gates' personal experience influencing how he reacted. Either people didn't read it or they discounted it. No matter.

"this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again."

Pray tell Ceejay, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? Sounds like one of those "Because that"s what THOSE PEOPLE do!

Given all this, is it not at least understandable why Dr Gates would deeply resent a policeman demanding he present identification INSIDE HIS OWN HOME.

I am not saying that Dr Gates should not have handled the situation differently. I am not saying that the policeman was a racist. But, as a Cambridge police statement said, "cooler heads did not prevail".

What I am saying is that, given his knowledge and his EXPERIENCE, that his reaction is UNDERSTANDABLE. The mocking, and the accusations of racism against a man who became angry for what he perceived as an injustice is way off base.

It's not that I don't believe him. He gave them a hard time out of the gate and finally after all the hubbub gave in and gave it to them. I would like to think that he wouldn't have been harrassed if he would have honored their request out of the gate. If I were a police officer and someone refused to show me their ID I would get a bit testy with the perp just as they did-I don't give a rip what color their skin is. I guess I'm just so sick of the race card always being thrown around. I honestly believe that if he would have just given the officer his ID out of the gate then none of this BS would be happening. Period!

Inside his own home? You mean the home he had just broken into? The home where that "break-in" had been reported by a passerby in a 911 call to police? You mean the home that had been broken into before?

Tell me why he resented being asked for identification, given all that? You gave a long list of baggage. You know, everyone has baggage! Everyone. White, black, Asian, hispanic, male, female, we all have baggage.

He is the one who made this a racial issue. He is the one who accused the officer who was responding to a 911 call of racial profiling. Yet he was the one who "broke in" to the house. Yes, it was his house. But exactly how was the officer supposed to know that?????

But to return to the reason that I responded to you in the first place:

"this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again."

Pray tell Ceejay, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

I think that is the only place where we disagree.

The charges were dropped. That makes you wrong.

Reminds me of the time my then 14 year old son got off of a city bus after riding home from school. He stepped off the bus, started walking the block or so home, and suddenly got swooped by the cops, they pushed him up against a brick wall, made him assume the position, hand cuffed him all because he was racially profiled. They assumed he was a criminal they were looking for. After seeing his school ID, not so much as a stinking apology and they sent him on his way. I can't describe in words how angry I was.
Racial profiling is alive and well in the U.S.
I totally understand how the professor felt because the cops acted hastily.
Best wishes to Professor Gates on a successful lawsuit.

@ Ceejay,

You wrote:

"If this had been a real burglary (a second burglary), and the man breaking in had said, "I live here, and forgot my key", and officers, afraid of being called racists and profilers, had smiled and said, "Okay then. Have a nice day." this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again.

Now that very clearly implies, when you said "this still would be a big racial hooplah, because Prof. Gates would make it so once again.", that Dr Gates is just a racism hustler, and will exploit this situation any way he could. I can't find any other way to read it.

You also wrote:

"Prof. Gates, already upset at being locked out, already upset and frustrated at trying to get in without his key, reacted to the police with that upset, angry, frustration. And people like that will never admit to themselves or anyone else, and most certainly not to the press and all their now celebrity backers, that they caused the big hooplah. And now the big hooplah will serve him well, as he makes the rounds as a guest on every cable news channel, and publishes his book, and uses his experience to his academic advantage."

By saying that "And now the big hooplah will serve him well' you are reinforcing my initial impression that you view Dr Gates as a racism hustler who will hype this situation "as a guest on every cable news channel and publishes his book" (Which one? I believe he has written 11) "and uses his experience to his academic advantage." (If you knew his career, you would not say anything that silly. He does not need "academic advantage")

And then you wrote:

"Because he turned this into a big racial hooplah, single-handedly, by his accusations toward a police officer responding to a 911 call of a break-in (there was in fact a break-in). If he responded this way this time, he can be fairly assumed to respond with a racial accusation if the police had ignored a legitimate 911 call and his place had been burgled and no police response."

You are undeniably saying that Dr Gates did not just lose his temper at a percieved injustice, but that his INTENT was to create a "big,racial hooplah". And based on that assumption, you therefore conclude that "he can be fairly assumed to respond with a racial accusation if the police had ignored a legitimate 911 call and his place had been burgled and no police response.".

If that were true, why have we not heard of him before? There have been plenty of racial incidents that he could have injected himself into, ala Sharpton, and done the talk show circuit to "sell his book". If he is what you assume him to be, someone who knows that "the big hooplah will serve him well", why are most people just hearing of him now. After all, he's 58 years old.

Or maybe he is just a studious and serious academic, politically quite moderate, who has written books for a mainly academic audience. And he lost his temper at what HE perceived to be an injustice, and wants or needs this kind of publicity like he wants or needs a hole in his head.

I know you don't give a rats patootie what I think, but your assumptions about Dr Gates, and how you reached those assumptions, trouble me.

I hope you won't take offense, but the way you post your responses makes it impossible to disentangle my posts from your insertions.

There is a difference between "INTENT" (your word and your caps) and Prof. Gates capitalizing on the hooplah.

Trust me, he will be writing a book. About this. And trust me. He will now be the commencement speaker at every black college he can squeeze into his May/June schedule.

As for the bold/underlined? Ditto.

And if he doesn't? Why would he. He doesn't need the money. It would be a step down in acclaim to write a "popular" book. Why would he do that? Do you think there has been any shortage of colleges and universities seeking him out as a commencement speaker? You don't seem to understand that, although you may not have heard of him before, this man is at the top of his game, an internationally acclaimed scholar.

As to whether I take offense. No, that was a very convoluted post I wrote. Couldn't quite figure out how to fix it and still contain all the information I wanted. But to sum it up, you said 3 times that Gates would play this 'racial incident' for all it is worth, ala Sharpton. Are you that cynical about everyone?

Then I don't need to say it a fourth time.

Do you want to get back to me about your rose colored glasses when he gets his advance for that popular press book? How about when he appears on Tavis Smiley, and side-by-side with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on Larry King?

Cynical? Moi?

And if your wrong? What's the time frame? By Jan 1? He's very prolific, you know. I'd bet you but I don't have any money.

But I'm still curious. Why do you think he would have exploited a racial angle if the police HAD NOT come to a real burglary? Like I said, you seem to dismiss him as you would Sharpton, as a 'racism hustler'? He certainly doesn't need the money. His academic career is as high as you can get. To behave as you suggest would actually cost him in the circles he is in. Why do you think, at the peak of his career, would he sacrifice it all join Sharpton, who is little more than butt coverage for Bill O'Reilly these days? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

No, I am not saying that at all. I do not equate him with Jackson and Sharpton. But I am saying he is already enjoying the limelight and the press attention. Have you seen him addressing the press? And with an entourage? And now has a lawyer?

And, hey, I don't have any money either, and am not one to place wagers, but perhaps you and I have enough mutual respect to stand back, see what unfolds, and then meet up to say either, "You were right, notvery. He did just go back to the classroom.", or, "You were right, ceejay. He cashed in on the notoriety." Deal?

"I do not equate him with Jackson and Sharpton." she wrote, after writing "How about when he appears on Tavis Smiley, and side-by-side with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on Larry King?".

As Whitman wrote, "I contradict myself, so I contradict myself".

Yeah, we can see how it unfolds. Maybe Gates, after being radicalized in his 5th decade, will write the next "Soul on Ice".

The latest from the conciliation front, Dr Gates and Officer Crowley have agreed to meet with Obama for a beer. Can Israelis and Palestinians be far behind.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_...ey_pleaded.html

Nevermind.

You are much smarter than this and I am disappointed in you. And if you weren't all lathered up about this and taking personal offense at this (what is that all about anyway?), you would have recognized that I was making the progression that although I do not equate the prof with Jackson and Sharpton, that the limelight and the entourage and the lawyer would soon have him sitting right alongside them!

As for contradictions, you stated all that long list of why he should have over-reacted to the police, justifying and rationalizing, then say this incident "radicalized" him? Which is it, not?

Nevermind.