Chester’s gamble, and our own

December 2nd, 2008 11:02 am · 17 comments

One thing you can argue about (and we HAVE argued about) is whether a stadium actually transforms a city or not.

In terms of generating redevelopment, Lancaster’s Clipper Magazine Stadium has been a mixed bag. There are a few people/organizations that would say, yes - we’re here (in Lancaster’s Northwest) because the stadium is. Others would say, well, the stadium is part of the overall revitalization effort; a big contributor to the sense of change in that neighborhood, though of and by itself, not the game-changer that many thought/hoped it would be.

And indeed, there are still a surprising/alarming number of vacancies in the general vicinity of the stadium. I’m told that in part that’s because some people/organizations who have property to lease simply have asked too much for it.

Still, I maintain and will continue to maintain that the Stadium had been a big net gain for Lancaster County on the whole. It adds an amenity - minor league baseball - that wasn’t here before, improving the quality of life for a lot of people. It gets a lot of people to come into the city who otherwise wouldn’t have. But you can’t say, “The stadium has solved the city’s problems,” because it hasn’t. It’s helped goose things in the right direction. No more. But no less.

Which brings us then to this, Chester’s plan to build a $115 million pro soccer stadium that “backers promise will help transform the struggling city of Chester”:

The stadium will stand on the riverfront just south of the Commodore Barry Bridge, and be the anchor of a $500 million development that backers say will help revive downtrodden Chester. The stadium - to seat 18,634, expandable to 21,600 - is to support millions of dollars worth of entertainment, retail, residential and commercial development. The big question has been whether the sour housing and lending markets would force cutbacks in that ancillary development.

Developer Rob Buccini, a team co-owner and the cofounder of the Buccini/Pollin Group, said yesterday that the stadium project would be built as intended, except for changes in the percentage of housing units to be sold and rented. Asked if the plans for the ancillary development would be revised if the economy continued to falter, Buccini responded, “How much worse can things get?”

Government officials say they will honor their funding commitments to the stadium project. The state has promised $47 million, and Delaware County Council $30 million.

It’s an interesting project in that the ancilliary development is being built along with the stadium. No waiting around and perhaps waiting in vain, as has been the case here; but it also ups the price tag enormously. And if it fails…

Yet it strikes me that Pennsylvania’s cities have no choice but to gamble this way. Particularly those that are worse off than Lancaster, which includes most Pennsylvania cities. Where taxes are already high and the bulk of spending goes toward public safety - cops and firefighters, as is the case here - you’re hamstrung to do anything else; and where the city is deteriorating and few things attract new homeowners or businesses willing to invest enough to make a difference, the choice it to either slowly drown - as so many cities are - or roll the dice, with public money where public officials make it available.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments against this; they’ve been leveled here, as well. But the problem is that however valid they may be regarding this specific project or that one - overall, what is the alternative? If a city like Chester doesn’t do this - what does it do? How does it revitalize?

Now seems to be an extraordinarily risky time for a city like Chester to stake so much on such a big gamble. (But then, some might say a similar thing about projects closer to home…) But officials there - and everywhere else - take that risk because they feel they have no choice.

If, on the broader statewide level, we should stop taking such risks - then there has to be a choice. A comprehensive choice. A solution to the decline of Pennsylvania’s cities. Chester, and cities like it, don’t have one. Projects like this - and the sense of momentum they hope it generates - then becomes the only choice.

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  17 comments  Tags: Economy · Development · Lancaster

There are currently 17 comments on this blog post
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Artie See
12/2/08
2:19 PM
QUOTE (Lancaster Online @ Dec 2 2008, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Still, I maintain and will continue to maintain that the Stadium had been a big net gain for Lancaster County on the whole.

Gil, please consider this:

The property that the baseball stadium is located on used to be taxable. Nothing spectacular, but real estate taxes were being paid. Now there are none.

I haven't been able to identify a single instance where assessed values have increased in the area as a direct result of the baseball stadium. In fact, the YMCA project has taken even more property off the tax rolls.

I'm sure that you have read Dave Pidgeon's report about Lancaster City's budget shortfall, which appears to be accurate. What I want to know is this: how are we supposed to reconcile increased taxpayer investment with reduced tax revenue? Where is the return on investment on our taxpayer dollars?
gsmart
12/2/08
3:10 PM
QUOTE (Artie See @ Dec 2 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gil, please consider this:

The property that the baseball stadium is located on used to be taxable. Nothing spectacular, but real estate taxes were being paid. Now there are none.

I haven't been able to identify a single instance where assessed values have increased in the area as a direct result of the baseball stadium. In fact, the YMCA project has taken even more property off the tax rolls.

I'm sure that you have read Dave Pidgeon's report about Lancaster City's budget shortfall, which appears to be accurate. What I want to know is this: how are we supposed to reconcile increased taxpayer investment with reduced tax revenue? Where is the return on investment on our taxpayer dollars?


Was thinking you'd chime in on this, Artie.

Again - as per the original post, no, you WON'T find instances of assessed values going up specifically because of the ballpark. And the point is well taken - this took land off the rolls, as are several other projects in the vicinity.

My assertion that the ballpark is a net gain for the community is based less on the city's budget than it is the overall quality of life in Lancaster County. Which does nothing for city taxpayers, understandable; but it's a reason to come into the city - and spend money while here, if only at the ballpark itself - for a lot of people who otherwise might never have come into the city.

One of the first ballgames I was at, there was a little league group from Lampeter. And I'm thinking: When's the last time kids from Lampeter had any reason to go into the city?

But again: the broader point that, if not projects of this type - then what? It isn't just Lancaster buying into this, it's cities across the Commonwealth, and we need not reiterate why they feel so desperate for help revitalizing; because they've had no success on their own, without the much-derided "public-private" partnerships. On their own, they find it difficult if not impossible to stem the tide of decay - as Lancaster did, at one time not too far in the past.
hyleasfan
12/2/08
4:19 PM
Ugh, I hate the Barnstormers.
Artie See
12/2/08
6:43 PM
QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 2 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Was thinking you'd chime in on this, Artie.

Work has been slow, because our customers are slow. I had the time.

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 2 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My assertion that the ballpark is a net gain for the community is based less on the city's budget than it is the overall quality of life in Lancaster County.

So it is OK for Lancaster City homeowners to pay higher taxes when there is a "net gain for the community". Lancaster City and SDoL real estate taxes are the single biggest disincentive to purchase a home or set up a business within Lancaster City.

Please tell us, Gil: would you buy a home in Lancaster City right now? And why?

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 2 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But again: the broader point that, if not projects of this type - then what?

What was wrong with the businesses that were there? Ace Rents moved out of the city, and had to downsize considerably because of the cost of moving; their industrial business is gone, all that is left is their party business. The piano store moved out of Lancaster City. And I don't know what happened to the repair shop, it might have gone out of business.

Please explain to us how Lancaster City taxpayers are better off with the baseball stadium than we were with three profitable privately-owned businesses that actually paid real estate taxes.
Artie See
12/3/08
12:45 PM
Gil, you didn't respond to my last post. I would really like to read your comments.
runutz
12/3/08
12:54 PM
If they hadn't built the ballpark, they could have expanded the railyard behind Ace Rents.

How's that for your assesed value?
littledutchboy
12/3/08
1:07 PM
Still, I maintain and will continue to maintain that the Stadium had been a big net gain for Lancaster County on the whole. It adds an amenity - minor league baseball - that wasn’t here before, improving the quality of life for a lot of people. It gets a lot of people to come into the city who otherwise wouldn’t have. But you can’t say, “The stadium has solved the city’s problems,” because it hasn’t. It’s helped goose things in the right direction. No more. But no less.




The very minor league stadium was sold to us, (with the newspapers help) as an engine of revitalization. I’ve read numerous articles about how much revitalization was taking place, included in these pro stadium stories were wild statements about billions of dollars of property value increases and billions of revitalization. I believe there was a certain amount of dishonesty in the promotion of our publicly funded ball park. Just wait until the “great white elephant” is open for a while, will we here Gil and Co. backpedaling like there is no tomorrow? My bet is ..YES!





gsmart
12/3/08
1:43 PM
QUOTE (Artie See @ Dec 2 2008, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So it is OK for Lancaster City homeowners to pay higher taxes when there is a "net gain for the community". Lancaster City and SDoL real estate taxes are the single biggest disincentive to purchase a home or set up a business within Lancaster City.

Please tell us, Gil: would you buy a home in Lancaster City right now? And why?


Artie, I wouldn't have bought a home in the city at any time since I had kids. We need space to run around, to throw a baseball. Saddling up and heading to the park three blocks away don't cut it.

If I didn't have kids: Yeah, I might. Might look specifically in the neighborhood of F&M/West End, or LGH. The idea being that here are institutions that have plowed a lot of money into the neighborhoods with the specific intention of improving them; in LGH's case, they're helping to subsidize employees who are deciding to move into the neighborhoods around the hospital. These are areas on the way back up - and the ballpark, and F&M's improvements, and LGH's, are absolutely an integral part of that.

QUOTE (Artie See @ Dec 2 2008, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please explain to us how Lancaster City taxpayers are better off with the baseball stadium than we were with three profitable privately-owned businesses that actually paid real estate taxes.


Look at the bigger picture, Artie.

Beyond the revenue that those 3 businesses provided - what prospects of improvement either for that neighborhood, the city as a whole, or the county as a whole did they provide? This gets back to the argument you make time and time and time again: The city was just fine if it wasn't for these meddling big organizations who got hold of taxpayer money to "revitalize" Lancaster.

I ask you the same question I've asked you at least twice before: Was Lancaster better off before the ballpark?

Would the Brickyard restaurant have moved in where it did without the ballpark?

How about the Champion Center, or the Lancaster Arts hotel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these businesses also paying taxes?

Have property values in Lancaster's Northwest gone up? If so - are you willing to concede that the ballpark and the related development in the vicinity have been factors in that?

I love ya, Artie, but I can't help but feel that you think Lancaster was just fine before the convention center and ballpark came along. I couldn't disagree with that more.
Artie See
12/3/08
5:46 PM
QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 3 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Look at the bigger picture, Artie.

Gil, I've been trying to. The problem is, the "bigger picture" is being promoted at the expense of homeowners in Lancaster City. And NO ONE has demonstrated how we the property owners of Lancaster City are now better off than we were before the ballpark was built.

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 3 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I ask you the same question I've asked you at least twice before: Was Lancaster better off before the ballpark?

In some ways, yes. The loss of three taxable businesses, and the full-time jobs they had created, has raised the cost of living in Lancaster City for the rest of us.

In all fairness, I have generally supported the ballpark. With the exception of Charlie Smithgall's $900,000 illegal promise, it was all done out in the open.

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 3 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would the Brickyard restaurant have moved in where it did without the ballpark?

How about the Champion Center, or the Lancaster Arts hotel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these businesses also paying taxes?

IIRC, both projects were on the drawing board before the ballpark was announced. If the ballpark is such an engine for economic development, why hasn't there been more?

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 3 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have property values in Lancaster's Northwest gone up? If so - are you willing to concede that the ballpark and the related development in the vicinity have been factors in that?

I would love to see the facts and figures in black and white. With so much vacant commercial space in the NW, I have trouble seeing how property values have increased. And the baseball stadium seems to have become a real problem for residents in its immediate area.

If residential values have actually increased in the NW, it is because of F&M and Kevin Silverang.

QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 3 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love ya, Artie, but I can't help but feel that you think Lancaster was just fine before the convention center and ballpark came along. I couldn't disagree with that more.

Lancaster wasn't "fine". But it was getting much better on its own.

I really don't have a big problem with the ballpark. I DO have a really big problem with the hotel and convention center project. Since the early 1990s, downtown Lancaster started coming back to life on its own. Gallery Row, the Hager Arcade, the 300 block of N. Queen St., and other areas in downtown Lancaster became bustling commercial centers with very little government intervention.

What would stifle downtown Lancaster's self-propelled innovation? Higher taxes, for one. Another issue would be anything that makes it more difficult for regular customers to park and/or get around downtown.

I am genuinely concerned that the hotel and convention center project, structured as it is, will become a drag on downtown Lancaster's nascent prosperity. High property taxes are only one issue. I know you are too young to remember the glorious promises made in your newspaper about the "luxury Hilton" at Queen and Chestnut; if anything, there is now less reason to stay in a hotel in downtown Lancaster than there was when the Brunswick was repeatedly driven into bankruptcy. And the convention center does not guarantee the hotel's success: during the eight months the facility will be open in 2009, there are a total of six days' worth of events that might fill the hotel. Consumer shows don't sell very many hotel rooms, they are primarily aimed at locals. And some of the six "other" events may sell a few hotel rooms, but not enough by themselves to keep the hotel open.

I didn't publicly oppose the original proposal for the hotel and convention center, in spite of the agreements which shifted so much of the cost to taxpayers. After all, a $30 million convention center, half of which would have been paid for by the State, is affordable. The hotel would have paid a substantial amount of real estate taxes, and the historic parts of the Watt & Shand building would have been preserved.

I only started opposing the project when certain individuals reneged on their oft-repeated promises to pay real estate taxes on the "private" hotel. It was then when I found out just how big and expensive the project had become.

Had Rob Ecklin been allowed to purchase the Watt & Shand building in 1998, we wouldn't be having this conversation: the site would have already been a steady and solid contributor to the economy (and real estate tax base) of downtown Lancaster for several years. And I'll bet Oblender's would still be around.

Thank you very much for replying.
Artie See
12/3/08
5:54 PM
Rick Gray has repeatedly promised that the hotel and convention center would prompt substantial economic development in downtown Lancaster. Gray specifically mentioned three businesses that were ready to make substantial investments downtown once construction started on the project. Where are they? Where is the promised economic development? Or are investors so concerned that the project will not live up to its exorbitant promises that they have taken a "wait-and-see" attitude?
Artie See
12/5/08
4:31 PM
QUOTE (Artie See @ Dec 3 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gil, I've been trying to.

Gil:

I was hoping you would have read my lengthy post, second above this one. I tried to explain my genuine concerns, specifically about downtown Lancaster being "just fine before the convention center and ballpark came along."

I am trying very hard to be logical, rational, and reasonable. Does what I wrote make any kind of sense to you, whether you agree with it or not?
runutz
12/5/08
5:17 PM
Gil,

Give him a yummy so we can move on.
harv1
12/5/08
5:59 PM
Gamble? Did someone say "gamble?"
avgwhiteguy
12/5/08
6:21 PM
Frankly, I am getting tired of the city absorbing projects that are labeled as for the county's benefit, at the cost of tax revenue to the city. I guarantee that Manheim Township or East Hempfield commissioners would scream bloody murder if the county proposed say, moving the prison to their townships. It would take away from land that could be developed as TNDs or unneeded shopping centers after all.
Artie See
12/5/08
8:33 PM
QUOTE (runutz @ Dec 5 2008, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Give him a yummy so we can move on.

Are you nuts?

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
gsmart
12/6/08
10:28 AM
Sorry Artie, didn't have a chance to get to this 'til now.

Let's not argue about the ballpark then, except that I'll say you're correct, I think, in your assessment that it hasn't generated as much commercial development as predicted or expected. Anecdotally, I've heard it's because some of those who are looking to lease properties are simply asking too much; perhaps having bought some of the property at an inflated price, they're now on the hook.

At the same time, though, the ballpark resulted in the loss of 3 businesses (though that term isn't exactly correct, as at least Ace Rents remains in business). I do believe we can find at least 3 businesses that have moved into the Northwest, who might cite the ballpark as one reason for their decision. In the long run, then, I think this is a wash, at worst.

And as I know you've been a consistent critic of most everything Fry and F&M have done, I'm sort of taken aback to see you give him/Silverang credit for boosting property values in the neighborhood.

Sometimes, Artie, what the large institutions do is not so detrimental to the city as the populists at ground zero always seem to think it is.

As for the convention center, I'm not going to have that argument again. Suffice to say that had anyhone asked me my advice (and no one did - I wonder why), I might have gone a different route.

But I also think it's a little shortsighted to think that Rob Ecklin could have "saved" the place without a significant infusion of taxpayer dollars, whatever his plans at the time (because as we know with the CC project itself, plans have a way of changing over time). I also think we take a leap of faith when we say that his interest in the site would have necessarily resulted in him completing a successful project there.

No offense intended to Ecklin, but he owns the fire-damaged mill on Columbia Avenue at Stone Mill Road, doesn't he? Owned it for quite some time, as I understand it. That place has been sitting fallow, damaged, very little activity for years. There is some activity going on there now, but it's not moving very quickly. The very same thing might have happened with the Watt & Shand building.

You might say that this would still be preferable to what actually has gone up there. I tend to think it would have been a tremendous drain on the city's viability. Whatever's happening up on North Queen Street, when the center of the city is permitted to sit, fallow, visibly decaying - it drags you down.
Artie See
12/6/08
6:36 PM
QUOTE (gsmart @ Dec 6 2008, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But I also think it's a little shortsighted to think that Rob Ecklin could have "saved" the place without a significant infusion of taxpayer dollars, whatever his plans at the time (because as we know with the CC project itself, plans have a way of changing over time).

I have no problem with an APPROPRIATE "significant infusion of taxpayer dollars".
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