Where was the religious right?

November 7th, 2008 11:35 am · 21 comments

A little bit of schadenfreude as we read of Dr. James Dobson wringing his hands in the wake of Obama’s election:

Dr. Dobson went on to congratulate Obama on “his stunning victory.”

“It was indeed a historic accomplishment, to be the first black man in American history to be elected to the highest office in the land.

“But, to be honest, I have to say that his win causes me enormous concern because he will be the most committed pro-abortion president in our history,” Dr. Dobson said. “He’s in favor of much of the homosexual agenda and he’s going to appoint the most liberal justices to the Supreme Court, perhaps that we’ve ever had. So, there are many reasons why I’m struggling today over the likely path that the nation has taken.”

And the Supreme Court thing is indeed huge. In effect, it keeps abortion legal for quite some time.

And so my question is this: Sure, the religious right might not have been as energized this year, though the Palin pick was designed to foster enthusiasm. And perhaps the enthusiasm of the evangelical right has been dampened for other reasons in recent years - the disappointment with and carnage of the war in Iraq, perhaps; a growing focus among some evangelicals on environmentalism, which would put them more in line with the Democratic Party’s aesthetic on the issue.

There’s a diversity of thought amongst evangelicals that we evil lib’rulz don’t often recognize.

But given that, as Glenn Greenwald noted the other day, we have three justices who probably will retire in the next four years, I simply cannot believe that those so opposed to abortion and gay rights would stay home.

But if they didn’t stay home - well, I specifically remember the conversations back in 2004 about how Values Voters were the key constituency in Bush’s win. Values Voters were the bloc to be reckoned with.

If Values Voters did go to the poll this year - they most certainly did not have the impact they had in 2004.

Update: OK, Tom Murse in today’s Era gets to the question, saying that locally at least - GOP rural voters did not turn up in the same numbers they did in 2000 and 2004:

In Bush’s strongest district here in 2004, Earl Township’s Martindale, the incumbent president took 89 percent of the 408 votes. This year, McCain won with only 76.2 percent of the 366 votes cast.

That’s a nearly 13 percentage point drop, or 84 fewer votes for the GOP’s presidential candidate this year in that district alone.

In McCain’s strongest district here, Leacock Township, the U.S. Senator from Arizona won 81.3 percent of the 1,090 votes cast. Four years ago, Bush won that district with 86.8 percent of the 1,345 votes cast.

Again, smaller turnout.

Smaller Republican margin.

Across Bush’s 10 strongest districts here - all rural - McCain walked away with a margin that was a couple thousand votes short of what the incumbent president won four years ago, a review of election data shows.

He’s got former county commissioner Terry Kauffman saying that either these rural voters weren’t enthused about McCain, and/or that the GOP was simply “whipped at the ground game.” But he’s also got Doublas Eaby, head of the Solanco Democrats, making the point we made around here earlier in the week - that as the county becomes more suburbanized, the GOP’s stranglehold gets loosened:

“We get a lot of people moving west from the Philadelphia area and Delaware County,” he said. “We have one new development of any size, and a lot of those people are Democrats or RINOs, Republicans in name only. They register Republican but vote the way they want.

“Say, 10 years ago this district would have been 700 for Bush and 200 for the Democrat. Now it’s 600 for McCain and 300 for Obama,” Eaby said. “I believe we’re making inroads.”

That ain’t just in southern Lancaster County - but across the county on the whole.

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  21 comments  Tags: Election 2008 · Religious conservatism

There are currently 21 comments on this blog post
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Pericles
11/7/08
10:55 AM
QUOTE (Lancaster Online @ Nov 7 2008, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


http://townhall.com/columnists/CalThomas/2...gious_right_rip

.....Evangelicals are at a junction. They can take the path that will lead them to more futility and ineffective attempts to reform culture through government, or they can embrace the far more powerful methods outlined by the One they claim to follow. By following His example, they will decrease, but He will increase. They will get no credit, but they will see results. If conservative Evangelicals choose obscurity and seek to glorify God, they will get much of what they hope for, but can never achieve, in and through politics.

Absolutely.
LifeLibertyProperty
11/7/08
10:58 AM
Read Jim Wallis.
Scout
11/7/08
11:02 AM
QUOTE
But if they didn’t stay home - well, I specifically remember the conversations back in 2004 about how Values Voters were the key constituency in Bush’s win. Values Voters were the bloc to be reckoned with. If Values Voters did go to the poll this year - they most certainly did not have the impact they had in 2004.
Or perhaps the focus of their values has simply changed

NativeBlue
11/7/08
12:36 PM
And it's not just people moving in from other areas (Philly for instance). Of my friends who grew up in Lancaster, went to college and moved back here I'd say at least 75% voted for Obama.
dowhatyoulike
11/7/08
6:01 PM
Dobson's distillation of the issues to his couple of pet peeves, obscuring all else, indeed makes him an evil man. The Republican party pays but lip service to his concerns while he has shackled himself to the war machine. Then he vilifies the opposition over choice, gays, and liberal justices. History will not be kind to Dobson.
gbrook63
11/7/08
9:57 PM
QUOTE (dowhatyoulike @ Nov 7 2008, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dobson's distillation of the issues to his couple of pet peeves, obscuring all else, indeed makes him an evil man. The Republican party pays but lip service to his concerns while he has shackled himself to the war machine. Then he vilifies the opposition over choice, gays, and liberal justices. History will not be kind to Dobson.



Likely HUMAN(istic) history will not be kind to Dobson. But I'll bet he'll have more than his share of rewards in Heaven!!!! Gee, which one is more important??? Eternal rewards, or temporary earthly ones....hmmmmm......
gbrook63
11/7/08
10:07 PM
QUOTE (Lancaster Online @ Nov 7 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.



The truth is that now the "Religious Right" is being more and more outnumbered. Far more people are choosing their ways over God's ways, and this is a sure sign that we are in the last days. Try reading the book of Revelation. It's all predicted very clearly there. Men are becoming more and more blinded to the truth by sin and their pride and their desire to have it their own way. God is allowing their hearts to become hardened toward Him, and the enemy, the devil, is gaining ground everyday. So, it's no surprise that America voted the way it did, it's only disheartening and heartbreaking to many of us. Like I said, a sure sign of the times....
But now each of us has to be sure that we are ready for what is about to come. Is your heart right with God? If not, you will be literally on your own. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."
dowhatyoulike
11/7/08
11:38 PM
It is the height of conceit to believe that your life, your time, your short stay here on planet earth will be witness to some special event prophesied a couple millennia ago. Get over it. There is work to do.
onlyinlancaster
11/8/08
12:21 AM
QUOTE (gbrook63 @ Nov 7 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The truth is that now the "Religious Right" is being more and more outnumbered. Far more people are choosing their ways over God's ways, and this is a sure sign that we are in the last days. Try reading the book of Revelation. It's all predicted very clearly there. Men are becoming more and more blinded to the truth by sin and their pride and their desire to have it their own way. God is allowing their hearts to become hardened toward Him, and the enemy, the devil, is gaining ground everyday. So, it's no surprise that America voted the way it did, it's only disheartening and heartbreaking to many of us. Like I said, a sure sign of the times....
But now each of us has to be sure that we are ready for what is about to come. Is your heart right with God? If not, you will be literally on your own. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

this is why the republicans lost. People are tired of this !profanity!
GeezUS
11/8/08
10:45 AM
QUOTE (gbrook63 @ Nov 7 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...this is a sure sign that we are in the last days.Try reading the book of Revelation. It's all predicted very clearly there.

But now each of us has to be sure that we are ready for what is about to come.

Try reading the whole New Testament starting with the first book:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

Jesus Christ lied! He is a false prophet because he is predicting his return, and the end of the world happening, within the lifetimes of his disciples.

Here we are 1900 (plus years) after his death and you're still predicting that Biblical end times are "very clearly" just around the corner. How many false predictions have their been over the centuries? Many.

The Bible is a good read, but the very foundation of it is myth. You can't build a "they all lived eternally hereafter in heaven" truth based on a foundation of (OT) fairy tales.
buddha
11/8/08
11:15 AM
Chuck Baldwin's comments on the election.

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/...an-an-election/
justplainjoe
11/8/08
11:31 AM
QUOTE (Pericles @ Nov 7 2008, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://townhall.com/columnists/CalThomas/2...gious_right_rip

.....Evangelicals are at a junction. They can take the path that will lead them to more futility and ineffective attempts to reform culture through government, or they can embrace the far more powerful methods outlined by the One they claim to follow. By following His example, they will decrease, but He will increase. They will get no credit, but they will see results. If conservative Evangelicals choose obscurity and seek to glorify God, they will get much of what they hope for, but can never achieve, in and through politics.

Absolutely.


so basically they will follow the teachings of jesus instead of, oh, um some politician who claims to be one of them but isn't?
hey i said that a few years ago.
i also predicted gas would be $2.50 a gallon by election day.
oh and i said obama would win with 330 electoral votes.
who was it that said " a prophet is not without honor save in his own country and in his own house"?
oh yeah.LOL

QUOTE (GeezUS @ Nov 8 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try reading the whole New Testament starting with the first book:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

Jesus Christ lied! He is a false prophet because he is predicting his return, and the end of the world happening, within the lifetimes of his disciples.

Here we are 1900 (plus years) after his death and you're still predicting that Biblical end times are "very clearly" just around the corner. How many false predictions have their been over the centuries? Many.

The Bible is a good read, but the very foundation of it is myth. You can't build a "they all lived eternally hereafter in heaven" truth based on a foundation of (OT) fairy tales.

that is because they read it as history instead of allegory as the ancients intended.
pml
11/8/08
12:53 PM
Yes we are blessed in Lancaster to have EDUCATED people who believe in science, not fairy tales and believe that our government should be for ALL PEOPLE not JUST Christians. People who vote on "values" forget how many beautiful young men and women have been killed by our love for war. They want to protect some cells that can not exist outside the mother's body for many many months but vote for a man who would continue to put our young military men adn women in harms way. They care mor about forcing a woman to give birth to a child she does not want and can not support on her own than giving EVERY AMERICAN citizen universal healthcare now onl reserved for children or people with children who refuse to work or pay taxes using the fact that having a child makes them unable to work. With millions of American women out there working AND supporting children it makes no sense to me to continue to give freebies to women who had access to birth control and refused to use it and then tell them they don;t need a job because their neighbors taxes will take care of them and their children.

I think the AMerican people made a huge statement this election. EVERY AMERICAN not just birthing vessels are entitled to rights. Gay, straight, and childless couples now have a chance to enjoy services only reserved for baby machines. Where was the religious right? In church praying of course. I am sure they all voted for McCain, the pissue is their numbers are dwindling which is good for our country and the millions of non Christians who pay taxes here yet are being forced to live by a Bible they don;t even believe in.
wrsny337
11/8/08
8:27 PM
QUOTE (gbrook63 @ Nov 7 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The truth is that now the "Religious Right" is being more and more outnumbered. Far more people are choosing their ways over God's ways,


What if the RRs ways aren't necessarily "God's ways?"
For whom would Jesus have voted?

My take: The recipients of Jesus condemnation (1st century religious elite) may have been the equivilent of some members of today's RR.

QUOTE (gbrook63 @ Nov 7 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
. . . and this is a sure sign that we are in the last days. Try reading the book of Revelation. It's all predicted very clearly there.


The Book of Revelation is prophetic genre and almost completely symbolic.
Therefore, the "sure sign" is not "very clearly there."

QUOTE (GeezUS @ Nov 8 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try reading the whole New Testament starting with the first book:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

Jesus Christ lied! He is a false prophet because he is predicting his return, and the end of the world happening, within the lifetimes of his disciples.

Here we are 1900 (plus years) after his death and you're still predicting that Biblical end times are "very clearly" just around the corner. How many false predictions have their been over the centuries? Many.

The Bible is a good read, but the very foundation of it is myth. You can't build a "they all lived eternally hereafter in heaven" truth based on a foundation of (OT) fairy tales.
wrsny337
11/8/08
9:48 PM
QUOTE (GeezUS @ Nov 8 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Try reading the whole New Testament starting with the first book:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

Jesus Christ lied! He is a false prophet because he is predicting his return, and the end of the world happening, within the lifetimes of his disciples.


I appreciate you're critical thinking, but take a look and take you're own advice.
I normally wouldn't spend so much time explaining something like this on TB, but I think you'll be interested in thinking outside the box a bit.

Please bear with me.

First thing:
Read a bit further: How could Jesus be predicting his return when He didn't even know when it would occur? "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, not the Son, but the Father alone" (Matt 24:36).

But if that's not enough . . .

Context: The phrases "this generation," "these things," and the fact that Jesus' disciples (at this point) remained clueless about the crucifixion and events beyond.

Jesus: "Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation" (Matt 23:36).

Jesus
: "Do you not see all these things . . . not one stone here shall be left upon another, . . . " (the temple and surrounding buildings--massive building project by King Herod the Great) (Matt 24:2).

Disciples
: "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?" (Matt 24:3)

Here's the deal:

23:36--Jesus was referring to the "Seven Woes" placed upon "this generation":
The Religious Elite.

24:2--Jesus was predicting the seige of Jerusalem
and the temple's destruction by the Romans in 70 AD--37 years later.

24:3--Disciples were referring to the seige: "these things" and "end of the age." (Despite Jesus teaching, His disciples still had no clue about post-crucifixion stuff. "Your coming" does not refer to Jesus' return. They still believed that Jesus was an earthly Messiah--defender of Jerusalem and Israel from the Romans) (Jn 16:16-33).
Shirley U Geste
11/9/08
7:48 AM
QUOTE
that is because they read it as history instead of allegory as the ancients intended


Is the entire Bible allegory or does it contain allegory?

The dangers of allegorical interpretation, especially of stories of history, is that it is very easy to get attached to the allegory, and lose all of the meaning of the original story.

People then use the allegory as the intepretation. Sometimes an allegory can be helpful, but unless you are sure that the author intended to write allegorically, don't use it to prove a point.

Allegorical interpretation is already just a bit loose, provided that the allegory is not intended by the author, and unless one is careful, one can simply create one's own world of meaning completely detached from the text.

Some will call the Bible allegory in order to avoid what it says.
justplainjoe
11/9/08
8:57 AM
QUOTE (Shirley U Geste @ Nov 9 2008, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the entire Bible allegory or does it contain allegory?

The dangers of allegorical interpretation, especially of stories of history, is that it is very easy to get attached to the allegory, and lose all of the meaning of the original story.

People then use the allegory as the intepretation. Sometimes an allegory can be helpful, but unless you are sure that the author intended to write allegorically, don't use it to prove a point.

Allegorical interpretation is already just a bit loose, provided that the allegory is not intended by the author, and unless one is careful, one can simply create one's own world of meaning completely detached from the text.

Some will call the Bible allegory in order to avoid what it says.

the bible was written on many different levels, some which must be spiritually discerned. jesus spoke in parables to the masses and to his disciples he made known the mystery hidden in the stories.
of course jesus is an allegory , it is the story of you.
Shirley U Geste
11/9/08
9:11 AM
Solar Mythology
wrsny337
11/9/08
7:30 PM
QUOTE (Shirley U Geste @ Nov 9 2008, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some will call the Bible allegory in order to avoid what it says.


The Bible is various genres:
Allegory, history, poetry, prose, parables, prophecy, apocolyptic.
And each should be interpreted using normal literary methods.
GeezUS
11/10/08
4:05 PM
QUOTE (wrsny337 @ Nov 8 2008, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I appreciate you're critical thinking, but take a look and take you're own advice.
I normally wouldn't spend so much time explaining something like this on TB, but I think you'll be interested in thinking outside the box a bit.

Please bear with me.

First thing:
Read a bit further: How could Jesus be predicting his return when He didn't even know when it would occur?

HE knew (once again from Matthew, but this time quoted from earlier in the book):

16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

He lied. Truth can't be built on a foundation of OT fairy tales.
wrsny337
11/10/08
7:05 PM
QUOTE (GeezUS @ Nov 10 2008, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HE knew (once again from Matthew, but this time quoted from earlier in the book):

16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

He lied. Truth can't be built on a foundation of OT fairy tales.


Nope.
Sorry, neither passage supports your view:

Stephen saw Jesus "in His kingdom" just before Stephen died during his stoning
(Acts 7:54-60)
And what makes you think others didn't see Jesus in the same way . . . just wasn't recorded?

The "coming in His kingdom" doesn't have to mean His Second Coming.
And you still can't ignore the clarity of Matt 24:36 (I mentioned previously).

If you don't mind me asking, where did you learn Bible interpretation?
It is a rather strict science: hermeneutics.
I think you'd be very interested in learning more.

Some ground-floor basics that apply here:
Context rules (literary, historical, authorial intent, intended audience, etc.)
Clear passages always explain obscure ones.

Hey GeezUS, here's some food for logical thought:

(I am amazed at folk who challenge the authenticity of Christianity without thinking of these--and, by the way, Jesus is THE center of the religion).

If this stuff is really a hoax, why on earth would the church allow hard-to-understand passages to remain in the text? Do you realize that since roughly 500AD, the Roman Catholic church literally controlled the handling of Scripture (interpretation, copying, etc). Not until the 1500s were common folk allowed to read for themselves.

Why not take out every passage that seems to undermine the religion?:

What about the passage we're discussing? Why wasn't it removed?

And these:
Jesus asking the Father to "take this cup from Me."
And Peter denying Christ (not to mention all of his other gaffs).
And Jesus choosing Judas as a disciple--the one who betrayed Him.
And Paul jailing and killing Christians--consenting to Stephen's death.

Oh, and these:
God creating Lucifer who tried to take God's "job" and deceived Eve.
And Noah's incest with his daughters.
And Jacob deceiving his father to obtain his brother's interitance.
And Moses arguing with God.
And David committing adultery and having the woman's husband murdered.

I could literally go on and on and on . . .
**The Creation order--light created before the sun????
**God giving the ten commandments (including "do not murder") . . .
and then commanding Israel to murder everyone in "the promised land" ?????

Why were these not removed if Christianity is a hoax??????

Your criticisms are not original.
Think, think, think.
I can come up with better reasons to not believe this stuff than you--but I still do.
Wonder why?

BTW: I truly enjoy discussing this with you and anticipate your response.
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