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Baloney!!!

See prior post below, with the addition that I think a mother with a son headed off to Iraq will be quite invested in studying the matter and bringing a quick, successful conclusion to the effort.


Prior Posting in a different thread:

My goodness, how folks who support Obama are becoming invested in the "this takes the experience issue off the table" argument. Must mean the experience issue is valid, as his supporters are almost orgasmic in their exhuberance to demand the issue be dropped.

The Presidential candidates are Barack Obama and John McCain - it is their experience that is relative as a starter point in this discussion. Both would, in theory, surround themselves with competent cabinet secretaries who would offer sound advice to either of them, or their vice president's if needed. Are we really concerned that John McCain will drop dead in the next four years? Are we convinced that Barack Obama would expire in an untimely fashion?

On balance, John McCain has more experience than Barack Obama, Joe Biden has more experience than Sarah Palin- BFD! I really don't know how much that experience counts, quite frankly. This past disaster(read administration) had plenty of "experience" in many of the ancillary or support positions. What is lacked was a leadership with morals and conviction. An administration is composed of a team with a leader. Personally, I think McCain v. Obama is a dead heat in terms of moral compass and leadership. The Biden v. Palin comparison goes to the Govenor of Alaska.

It will be a most interesting fall campaign season.

Can you name me one major accomplishment of Palin's. One major piece of legislation she wrote and got passed.

See Truman, Harry.
See Johnson, Lyndon

Palin is no worse than either of those VPs. Better, in some regards, than Truman. A far better person than Johnson.

As for an "average" 72 year old, NO President is "average" in that their health is monitored almost daily. Short of assassination, no President is likely to die in office - 72, 76, or even 80.

This is not, and never has been, about qualifications. Not for VP and not for President. Oh, that it were! But is is not. And it is NOT "tokenism." It is measurement, calculation, and application of winning formulas.

Yes, it is about winning, first and foremost. Winning at all costs. Winning if it requires attack ads. Winning if it means trumping the press interest (as McCain did with Palin). Winning by selecting beauty over brains. Winning by image, image, and image.

That is how Obama won his nomination. That is why Palin was selected by McCain.

Like it or not, that is the beast.

No, I don't like it, either. Romney would have been a better VP from the qualification view - that is certain. But Palin will win far more votes and gives McCain a better chance of winning the election than anyone else out there. Palin stole the Democrat Convention thunder. Palin will secure many Hillary votes.

It was a brilliant choice, politically.

And there is no other choice even considered by either party.

Uh, can you do the same with Obama?

Can you name me one major accomplishment of Palin's. One major piece of legislation she wrote and got passed.

Governor's don't write legislation. Governor's sign or veto legislation.

Can you name me one major piece of legislation that Obama wrote and got passed in the U.S. Senate? And he is the Presidential candidate, not the veep. Didn't think so ...

Uh, can you do the same with Obama?

Governor's don't write legislation. Governor's sign or veto legislation.

Can you name me one major piece of legislation that Obama wrote and got passed in the U.S. Senate? And he is the Presidential candidate, not the veep. Didn't think so ...

Executives propose legislation all the time. Or do you forget Bush, "give me the exact FISA bill I want or I'll hold my breath until I pass out."

Not quite the same as a LEGISLATOR DOES!!! And your list of Obama's "major legislation"? (Remembering he is running for President and she is up for V.P. ...

I'm still waiting I asked first and this blog is about Mcsame and Plain

And my answer was that Governor's, who are Executive branch, do not write nor sponsor legislation. They sign or veto legislation. That list has already been given by Kate on another thread.

Funny. NO ONE can provide ANYTHING for the Great Legislator Barack Obama, who is running for President of the United States. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

And you dodge and weave. Figures.

And my answer was that Governor's, who are Executive branch, do not write nor sponsor legislation. They sign or veto legislation. That list has already been given by Kate on another thread.

Funny. NO ONE can provide ANYTHING for the Great Legislator Barack Obama, who is running for President of the United States. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

And you dodge and weave. Figures.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/0...ama.GRAPHIC.gif

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/obam...ccomplishments/

Edited to fix link

Your links are deceiving.

Bills passed by the Senate: 7
Bills which actually became law (which was dragonrider's criteria): 2

You can write all the proposals you want, but the measure is passage of those pieces of legislation.
dragonrider's other criteria was "major" legislation. hmmmmm.

Your links are deceiving.

Bills passed by the Senate: 7
Bills which actually became law (which was dragonrider's criteria): 2

You can write all the proposals you want, but the measure is passage of those pieces of legislation.
dragonrider's other criteria was "major" legislation. hmmmmm.

What major initiatives did Palin enact as Governor - besides selling the state plane?

Her major initiative as Mayor was an ice arena that saddled the 9,000 residents with $15 million in debt and a $1M+ lawsuit that still is not settled.

Except that you are comparing Obama -- Presidential candidate

with Palin -- V.P.

ok, so if you want to do it that way and compare biden to palin, she is really lacking.

No question Angelface, McCain has more years than Obama in Washington. Although I would venture that Obama has more experience with what is really going on in the neighborhoods and streets of our country than McCain. I doubt that McCain would have been able to function in Chicago or Philly or Lancaster for that matter. He's just not that kind of nitty gritty guy. McCain's insular life and lifestyle has him coming up short in day to day problems of people like me and you.

McCain served in the military and was a POW. He should be commended and no one in their right mind denies that, (not even Obama). He was married and a father and went through divorce as millions of Americans do. Its well known that he was a philanderer (in the words of my mother ) and he married very very very well financially. Seriously, good for him. But he is out of touch just as Bush was and is.

Its the way his life is and he can't pretend to be in the know about not having enough money to pay the doctor so you just don't go, or worrying how you're going to pay the bills month to month especially if you need a car repair or emergency room visit, or that your weekly grocery bill jumps $20 which means that's $20 less you have for gas to get you to work next week.

I don't agree with every Obama issue, but he is closer to the reality that is my life. Most of his issues are my issues. I like the fact that he is intelligent and thoughtful and don't find those things to be a detriment. McCain is more in line with Bush and the strike now, ask questions later mentality. I don't take pride in the America - Bully of the World, we can beat the crap out of anybody, attitude anymore.

.

Thanks for keeping it civil and intelligent. A rare thing on TB.

Politics & Religion are the two things that bring out great passion in this country. I believe with my whole heart that they should remain separate. Installing christian ideology into the government of America which espouses equality to all legal citizens is asking for a trainwreck of monumental proportions. Freedom of religion is "sacred" (to use a religious word) and I believe its sanctity is personal to each individual and should not be foisted upon the masses. That is my problem with the religious conservatives.

There is a fine line that needs to be traversed and I fear that they are slowly crossing that line. I don't want to live in a religious state, I want to be able to worship if I want or not worship if I so choose. I don't want to be told by the government which religion I am required to practice and I want the freedom to not practice any religion. I don't want my government to dictate religion to me or anyone else.

Christians believe that faith and religion are God made and I think Man is dabbling with it way too much.

To be honest I don't know one single major piece of legislation that Obama got passed either. My vote for Obama is less for Obama and more a rejection of McCain.
My issues with McCain"
War in Iraq
gay marriage
health care and insurance
enviroment
war in general as a main foreign policy
tax and deficit
abortion
McCain is on the wrong side of me on all these issues, so if I vote in the fall it will be against McCain not for Obama. Sarah Plain only doubles down on my problems with McSame.

But Obama's healthcare plan is not Hillary's healthcare plan.

Palin will secure many Hillary votes.

Not as many as McCain hopes.

Most women are intelligent enough to see this as what it really is: a politically-motivated attempt to manipulate women into voting for McCain. Most women are also intelligent enough to see that Palin is even more conservative than McCain.

And this could very well backfire on McCain: there are many ultra-conservative men who believe women don't belong in a position of power. This includes in Lancaster County, and I know a few of them. Many of these individuals will be so angry that they simply will not vote at all.

By alienating a significant portion of GW Bush's ultra-conservative base, McCain may have hurt more than helped his chances for election.

And McCain's health care "plan" is to tax employer paid health care benefits, with the stated goal of shifting the cost of health care from employers onto individuals.

And McCain's health care "plan" is to tax employer paid health care benefits, with the stated goal of shifting the cost of health care from employers onto individuals.

which is great if you can afford to buy your own and 2500 tax deduction won't cover the costs. long term mcshame's plan will lead to less insured and more poverty.

as if in 25 years of feeding at the public trough mccain has done much of anything. he sponsored the mccain/feingold law and then tried to get around it. the guy is a joke. a pathic old man the republics threw to the wolves knowing he would never win.
little miss pusscakes as vp is a joke.
she was mayor of bum!profanity! alaska and a govornor for a year and a half.
all this after the right blew it's wad whining about obama havingf no experience.
we are tyaking our country back from the miserable christians and the thieving lobbyists that you gave us.
don't like it?
great that makes it even sweeter.
LOL

Now, compare McCain with Obama. On experience.

Except that you need to look at what "free" healthcare costs taxpayers in Canada and England, and what single-payer mandated healthcare has cost Massachussetts.

That 2500 tax deduction is going to look really good when you get the tax bill for the Obama plan.

between the language and spelling...this has my vote for the most intelligent post of this thread. pure genius.

nothing in life is free and those of us that are in favor of a single payer system or so called socialized medicine are aware of that..

free roads aren't free either, we expect our taxes to pay for things like our country's infrastructure and more and more people are willing to shift the amount they pay for premiums and co-pays (which keep going up) to an amount of tax. nothing in life is free and those of us that are in favor of a single payer system or so called socialized medicine are aware of that... and aren't afraid of the doom and gloom stories from the right.

bush suck up


besides the pow. we all know he was dumb enough to get caught.

Except that you need to look at what "free" healthcare costs taxpayers in Canada and England, and what single-payer mandated healthcare has cost Massachussetts.

That 2500 tax deduction is going to look really good when you get the tax bill for the Obama plan.

One of the reasons I have stated that I voted Hillary. But Obama's plan is not Hillary's plan.

change.

This isn't a gloom and doom scare tactic. We lived in England for a year. We have both worked in healthcare all our working lives. Before you all make your healthcare bed, be sure it is a bed you are prepared to sleep in. Including rationing of care, and long long waits for surgeries, etc.

bush suck up? you don't know me.
And shame on you for disrespecting every single pow ever. You're illiterate and rude.
How pathetic.

yet you want us to believe you voted for baby killer hillary because of her health care plan instead of trying to subvert the democratic process?

My understanding of the McCain health care plan as covered on NPR is that employers will be driven to drop coverage of employees. There will no longer be any pooling of purchasers so we will all be on our own . Those with age, preexisting conditions or other risks will be priced out of the insurance market. For low and middle income workers will be relegated to high deductable Health Savings Accounts.

I understand under Obama's or Hillary's plan my taxes are going to go up to support health care and that there will be some rationing. presently we also have rationing, people don't go to the doctor until seriously ill then go to the emergency room becuase they can't afford reguler health care.

Not sure I understand why we can underwrite the total cost of military in Europe but we can't afford to provide health insurance to Americans. Our military costs presently exceed the rest of the worlds expenditures combined. Why do republicans see war as good health care bad?

Baloney!!!

See prior post below, with the addition that I think a mother with a son headed off to Iraq will be quite invested in studying the matter and bringing a quick, successful conclusion to the effort.


Prior Posting in a different thread:

My goodness, how folks who support Obama are becoming invested in the "this takes the experience issue off the table" argument. Must mean the experience issue is valid, as his supporters are almost orgasmic in their exhuberance to demand the issue be dropped.

The Presidential candidates are Barack Obama and John McCain - it is their experience that is relative as a starter point in this discussion. Both would, in theory, surround themselves with competent cabinet secretaries who would offer sound advice to either of them, or their vice president's if needed. Are we really concerned that John McCain will drop dead in the next four years? Are we convinced that Barack Obama would expire in an untimely fashion?

On balance, John McCain has more experience than Barack Obama, Joe Biden has more experience than Sarah Palin- BFD! I really don't know how much that experience counts, quite frankly. This past disaster(read administration) had plenty of "experience" in many of the ancillary or support positions. What is lacked was a leadership with morals and conviction. An administration is composed of a team with a leader. Personally, I think McCain v. Obama is a dead heat in terms of moral compass and leadership. The Biden v. Palin comparison goes to the Govenor of Alaska.

It will be a most interesting fall campaign season.

Baloney!!!

See prior post below, with the addition that I think a mother with a son headed off to Iraq will be quite invested in studying the matter and bringing a quick, successful conclusion to the effort.


Prior Posting in a different thread:

My goodness, how folks who support Obama are becoming invested in the "this takes the experience issue off the table" argument. Must mean the experience issue is valid, as his supporters are almost orgasmic in their exhuberance to demand the issue be dropped.

The Presidential candidates are Barack Obama and John McCain - it is their experience that is relative as a starter point in this discussion. Both would, in theory, surround themselves with competent cabinet secretaries who would offer sound advice to either of them, or their vice president's if needed. Are we really concerned that John McCain will drop dead in the next four years? Are we convinced that Barack Obama would expire in an untimely fashion?

On balance, John McCain has more experience than Barack Obama, Joe Biden has more experience than Sarah Palin- BFD! I really don't know how much that experience counts, quite frankly. This past disaster(read administration) had plenty of "experience" in many of the ancillary or support positions. What is lacked was a leadership with morals and conviction. An administration is composed of a team with a leader. Personally, I think McCain v. Obama is a dead heat in terms of moral compass and leadership. The Biden v. Palin comparison goes to the Govenor of Alaska.

It will be a most interesting fall campaign season.

Baloney!!!

See prior post below, with the addition that I think a mother with a son headed off to Iraq will be quite invested in studying the matter and bringing a quick, successful conclusion to the effort.


Prior Posting in a different thread:

My goodness, how folks who support Obama are becoming invested in the "this takes the experience issue off the table" argument. Must mean the experience issue is valid, as his supporters are almost orgasmic in their exhuberance to demand the issue be dropped.

The Presidential candidates are Barack Obama and John McCain - it is their experience that is relative as a starter point in this discussion. Both would, in theory, surround themselves with competent cabinet secretaries who would offer sound advice to either of them, or their vice president's if needed. Are we really concerned that John McCain will drop dead in the next four years? Are we convinced that Barack Obama would expire in an untimely fashion?

On balance, John McCain has more experience than Barack Obama, Joe Biden has more experience than Sarah Palin- BFD! I really don't know how much that experience counts, quite frankly. This past disaster(read administration) had plenty of "experience" in many of the ancillary or support positions. What is lacked was a leadership with morals and conviction. An administration is composed of a team with a leader. Personally, I think McCain v. Obama is a dead heat in terms of moral compass and leadership. The Biden v. Palin comparison goes to the Govenor of Alaska.

It will be a most interesting fall campaign season.

But Obama's plan is not Hillary's plan.

I was not flinging out the Canada and England -- throw in Netherlands and Scandanavia -- as a reproach or as a stinging rebuke!!!! This is a serious challenge to everyone, BEFORE you or your congresspersons vote in a single-payer health plan. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

I did do my homework. The company I work for has a factory in British Columbia, and I have spent a total of several months working there. In my daily encounters with Canadian workers, the overwhelming majority are very happy with the Canadian health care system. I've told this story before: one of my Canadian co-workers has an adult son who needed a heart transplant. His out-of-pocket cost for medication is roughly $100 a month. Compare that to the article printed several months ago in one of the local newspapers, where a local man who had a heart transplant stated he wished he had died instead, because of the hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt his family now faces as a result.

As for what you call health care "rationing", I'd much rather face a delay than not be able to pay for the health care that myself or my wife would need to stay alive.

You said "DO YOUR HOMEWORK"? Then please take the time to compare what Canadians pay for health care in higher taxes and out-of-pocket expenses, compared to what Americans and their employers pay for health care. You will see that the cost of the Canadian system to each and every individual is far less than that of the U.S. lack-of-a-system.

Scare tactics only work because so many people are shielded from their true health care costs by what their employer pays toward their health insurance. If McCain were to be elected AND his health care proposals were to be passed, you WILL see an increasing number of Americans clamoring for a uniquely American universal health care system, sooner rather than later.

I already pay 500 a month for my share of my health insurance, do I expect the tax to be more than that , not much.

The answer then to America’s health care problems lies not in heading down the road to national health care but in learning from the experiences of other countries, which demonstrate the failure of centralized command and control and the benefits of increasing consumer incentives and choice.

What major initiatives did Palin enact as Governor - besides selling the state plane?

Her major initiative as Mayor was an ice arena that saddled the 9,000 residents with $15 million in debt and a $1M+ lawsuit that still is not settled.

The thing I find most interesting about this whole Palin pick is that the buzz seems to be working. Even here on lancaster online we have like 5 different threads going on with incredible number of views. After only 2 days it is no longer Palin who? but Biden who?

I wonder what the residents of Wasilla, AK think of her?

I wonder what the residents of Wasilla, AK think of her? The debt is proportional to our very own convention center, is it not?

Our convention center/hotel cost is in the $170M range - a far cry from a $15M ice rink.

Funny that you bring that up. I met a guy the other day who appeared to be 45+ years old and he asked if Obama had picked a vice president yet. I told him he had picked Biden from Delaware and next he asked who Biden was and what did he do? And he's just down Rt. 896 from us.
The lack of a PR bump over the Dem's VP pick means someone sold Obama on Biden using fuzzy math.

John McCain's VP pick is the governor of Alaska, a unknown hockey mom named Sarah Palin that no one ever heard of. The only other job she had in politics was the mayor of a small town known as Wasilla, Alaska, and now she has the opportunity to be on a ticket opposite of Barack Obama, the first black man she's ever seen."

Sarah Palin in Her Own Words


"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin



oh yeah, she's a great pick

I just can't get past that quote. I hope she didn't mean it the way she said it.

I asked this on another thread and received no answer. Since you make the same point, then I will ask, then would you preclude any Christian from holding any elected office? Would any deeply religious person be disqualified from serving in government?

To answer your question, I would disqualify no one from holding an elected office. The constitution states that determination may not be used by religious testing. That means any and all religions.

I'll use a benign example (I'll probably get labeled as a doofus, but here goes).

Lets say your religion absolutely prohibits eating hamburgers.

Candidate #1 is a member of that religion and runs on the absolutely no eating of hamburgers will be tolerated platform.

Candidate #2 also is a member of that religion but says for the sake of all (believers of that religion and non believers of that religion) I will allow you the freedom of choice of whether you eat hamburgers or not. I will allow you that personal decision, and people of the non hamburger eating religion will still have the right to try (within their religion and without force of government law) to get the hamburger eaters to come over to their side.

Sounds pretty goofy but it points to a conversation that will be had over and over again. But because of the personal freedoms awarded to us in our country, we are allowed to have those conversations.

by the way, I am not an athiest, but I no longer hold any stock in organized religion.

awesome choice wouldn't you say?She is a mother of 5 though.And she was runnerup in a beauty contest.And now she's going to be a grandma. What else could you ask for?