World War III?

August 13th, 2008 9:33 am · 13 comments

The far right has been frothing at the mouth over the Russia-Georgia situation, as Josh Marshall has been cataloguing. The latest comes from Bill O’Reilly:

But the message is sent: I, Vladimir Putin, and Russia can do whatever we want to do, and you can’t stop us because we have the oil. Now, its the same thing with Iran. Who props up Iran? Russia. Why? Because Russia wants the United States weakened. And Russia knows that Iran wants to dominate the oil in the Gulf. So Russia sells Iran weapons, blocks any sanctions against them, and he’s playing the double game. Putin is a real villain. Now, this is World War III on the horizon, ladies and gentlemen.

Is it?

Is this what the right wants? Of course Russia wants the United States weakened - just as the United States has wanted Russia weakened. This is great power politics. But the real question is: With what forces could the U.S. possibly thwart Russian intentions, whatever they are?

We are tied down in Iraq and Afghanistan. So how should we respond to the Russian “challenge,” if in fact it amounts to something more than a regional conflict, which we ought to stay out of?

Pulling troops from Iraq or Afghanistan?

Draft?

Well, no one’s saying that. But we see, today, that the Russians appear to have violated the cease-fire, and are rolling further into Georgia. John McCain says yesterday that Putin “wants to restore the old Russian empire.” That’s probably hyperbole - but what if it were true?

Here was always the danger of getting bogged down in Iraq, of wars on spec. It ties us down; and should there be a situation necessitating an American response elsewhere, it becomes far more difficult to manage that response.

No one, of course, initially believed we’d be in Iraq this long, with this many troops. And let me be clear that I do not believe the United States has any business protecting, militarily, either Georgia or the Ukraine - or any other former Soviet satellite, for that matter. But this is another example of how neoconservatism and the Bush years have weakened this country.

Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Netvouz
  • DZone
  • ThisNext
  • Wists
  • Fark
  • Reddit
  • Slashdot
  • StumbleUpon
  • Technorati

  13 comments  Tags: Russia · John McCain

There are currently 13 comments on this blog post
View Topic | Comment on this blog
dragonrider
8/13/08
11:20 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Aug 13 2008, 09:35 AM) [snapback]423623[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
I think if we vote another belocous neocon as president WWIII is indeed a possibility
WinstonTheLastHuman
8/13/08
11:32 AM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 13 2008, 11:20 AM) [snapback]423686[/snapback]

I think if we vote another belocous neocon as president WWIII is indeed a possibility


Just another example of how our two parties are ultimately the same (also known as opposames).

Obama foreign policy advisor Ziggy Brzezinski would love to use this event to justify some sort of response....also note his philosophy as outlined in The Grand Chessboard and its similarity to PNAC doctrine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/12/georgia
dragonrider
8/13/08
11:41 AM
QUOTE(WinstonTheLastHuman @ Aug 13 2008, 11:32 AM) [snapback]423695[/snapback]


Just another example of how our two parties are ultimately the same (also known as opposames).

Obama foreign policy advisor Ziggy Brzezinski would love to use this event to justify some sort of response....also note his philosophy as outlined in The Grand Chessboard and its similarity to PNAC doctrine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/12/georgia
I think we need a moratorium on comparing people to Hitler and nazi's. It diminishes your argument and diminishes the true atrocity that was Hitler.
WinstonTheLastHuman
8/13/08
11:50 AM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 13 2008, 11:41 AM) [snapback]423698[/snapback]

I think we need a moratorium on comparing people to Hitler and nazi's. It diminishes your argument and diminishes the true atrocity that was Hitler.

LOL-how is it my argument?
InterestRP08
8/13/08
11:50 AM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 13 2008, 11:41 AM) [snapback]423698[/snapback]
I think we need a moratorium on comparing people to Hitler and nazi's. It diminishes your argument and diminishes the true atrocity that was Hitler.




dragon, are you crazy?? if you can't find similarity, then you are practicing insanity: doing the same thing over and over again.

granted, some people say 'hey you told me what to do stop being a nazi' and yes, THAT probably stands to be labeled for a moratorium, but NOT WHEN IT IS RELATIVE AND DUE!!! just because it's including your precious candidate are you being this way, i think.




and...LOL... it's obamas campaign advisor talking about the hitler relation....


dragonrider
8/13/08
12:20 PM
QUOTE(InterestRP08 @ Aug 13 2008, 11:50 AM) [snapback]423701[/snapback]




dragon, are you crazy?? if you can't find similarity, then you are practicing insanity: doing the same thing over and over again.

granted, some people say 'hey you told me what to do stop being a nazi' and yes, THAT probably stands to be labeled for a moratorium, but NOT WHEN IT IS RELATIVE AND DUE!!! just because it's including your precious candidate are you being this way, i think.




and...LOL... it's obamas campaign advisor talking about the hitler relation....


Ok so you tell me how is Putin like Hitler

Has he taken out to exterminate all Jews everywhere

Has he begun blitzkreig across Europe

Has he signed military pacts with Italy and Japan or some equal

Does he have gas chambers

Is he performing surgery and medical experiments of people



Tell me how is Putin like Hitler.

InterestRP08
8/13/08
12:39 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 13 2008, 12:20 PM) [snapback]423725[/snapback]
Ok so you tell me how is Putin like Hitler

Has he taken out to exterminate all Jews everywhere

Has he begun blitzkreig across Europe

Has he signed military pacts with Italy and Japan or some equal

Does he have gas chambers

Is he performing surgery and medical experiments of people



Tell me how is Putin like Hitler.





READ THE ARTICLE. OBAMAS CAMPAIGN MANAGER EXPLAINED IT! LOL @ U.

AngelFace
8/13/08
12:48 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 13 2008, 12:20 PM) [snapback]423725[/snapback]

Ok so you tell me how is Putin like Hitler

Has he taken out to exterminate all Jews everywhere

Has he begun blitzkreig across Europe

Has he signed military pacts with Italy and Japan or some equal

Does he have gas chambers

Is he performing surgery and medical experiments of people



Tell me how is Putin like Hitler.


Um ... have you not been watching the news the past two days? Blitzkreig? Georgia? Tanks rolling to the capital? Hello????

As to the other questions, Germany wasn't doing those things the week they rolled over Poland either. That came later. With Putin, we will watch and see.

Plus, Putin's use of nuclear poisons on his enemies make the Nazi experiments on humans look like a Sunday School picnic.
cyberscribbler
8/13/08
2:28 PM
QUOTE(WinstonTheLastHuman @ Aug 13 2008, 11:32 AM) [snapback]423695[/snapback]

Obama foreign policy advisor Ziggy Brzezinski would love to use this event to justify some sort of response....also note his philosophy as outlined in The Grand Chessboard and its similarity to PNAC doctrine.
First of all Zbignew is an occassional advisor to Obama. Secondly the response he outlined was economic sanctions.
QUOTE
"If Russia continues on this path it has to be isolated by the international community," he said, including economic sanctions on which all alliances from the European Union to Nato would have to take a joint stand.

Thirdly it's in reaction to US cozying up to Georgia, Ukraine, in order to have access to the Caspian Sea oil reserves.

Then this
QUOTE
"Two episodes illustrate this better than any others," he said. "First, when Bush met Putin for the first time and said he had looked into his soul and could trust him. Secondly, when Condi Rice, not so long ago, said that the American-Russian relations had never been better than they are today." He said the White House had deceived itself.

You'd think Condi would have thought to give Bush an insight into how paranoid Russians are as a people. But the only thing should knew how to do was read War & Peace in original Russian. rolleyes.gif
It's indeed a grand chessboard, too bad Bush is more of a checkers player.
rolleyes.gif

Putin shouldn't be trusted as far as you can throw him. He's been tapping into the yearning in Russians for the ole' glory days of the Soviet Union. One in which he served in the KGB.
If the post Soviet era would have been done right, i.e. not rape & pillage, where a bunch of new billionaires rose, and the rest were left with the crumbs. The yearning for days of glory wouldn't have laid the groundwork for a Putin to take charge. While they obviously felt humiliated to see Bush & Cheney in the neighborhood prancing around like the new bully in the neighborhood.
UncommonSense
8/13/08
3:03 PM
Gil,



While you are blogging and researching the cause and effect of the Russian invasion into Georgia, and tying in our involvement/debacle in Iraq/Afghanistan etc, throw also into the mix China and their activity toward building the largest "blue water" navy in the world. Where will this leave us?



Draft? Perhaps yes and now. Diplomacy, most asuredly both yes and now. Diplomacy without the ability to "back it up" is futile, pathetic really.



What say you?

WinstonTheLastHuman
8/13/08
3:26 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Aug 13 2008, 02:28 PM) [snapback]423784[/snapback]

First of all Zbignew is an occasional advisor to Obama.



Yeah, I saw that word too. Only time will tell exactly what it means (though many think its already clear).

My thought is a man of Zig's stature and experience doesn't get involved to sit on the bench.


QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Aug 13 2008, 02:28 PM) [snapback]423784[/snapback]

Secondly the response he outlined was economic sanctions.


Uhhhhhh, gradualism, maybe? Read his books, listen to what he says; this man is a hawk....
jackieboy
8/13/08
3:55 PM
War in the Caucasus: Towards a Broader Russia-US Military Confrontation?



During the night of August 7, coinciding with the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, Georgia's president Saakashvili ordered an all-out military attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia.

The aerial bombardments and ground attacks were largely directed against civilian targets including residential areas, hospitals and the university. The provincial capital Tskhinvali was destroyed. The attacks resulted in some 1500 civilian deaths, according to both Russian and Western sources. "The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies." (AP, August 9, 2008). According to reports, some 34,000 people from South Ossetia have fled to Russia. (Deseret Morning News, Salt Lake City, August 10, 2008)

The importance and timing of this military operation must be carefully analyzed. It has far-reaching implications.

Georgia is an outpost of US and NATO forces, on the immediate border of the Russian Federation and within proximity of the Middle East Central Asian war theater. South Ossetia is also at the crossroads of strategic oil and gas pipeline routes.





justplainjoe
8/13/08
4:12 PM
QUOTE(jackieboy @ Aug 13 2008, 03:55 PM) [snapback]423813[/snapback]
Georgia is an outpost of US and NATO forces, on the immediate border of the Russian Federation and within proximity of the Middle East Central Asian war theater. South Ossetia is also at the crossroads of strategic oil and gas pipeline routes.







georgia is an outpost of the united states? isn't georgia on the russian border?

how is that an american outpost?

View Topic | Comment on this blog