The value of book lernin’

August 12th, 2008 12:09 pm · 22 comments

Interesting mini-debate going on over at NewsLanc regarding our local libraries, in relation to this Era piece yesterday about how the number of people using the Duke Street library in particular has soared - up 15 percent in the first six months of the year, compared to the same period in 2007.

I can vouch for the increase, as we were there yesterday (as we have been at most two-week intervals over the summer). Frankly, we’re fighting for space up in the kids’ room in particular. Nonetheless, there persists this idea that libraries are somehow a relic of the past - that the Internet age, the ease with which Amazon.com can deliver virtually anything to your door, or the things that are available for free on line, has made visiting the library obsolete.

And that’s true - for a specific demographic, defined as those who have the money to buy whatever they like from Amazon.com, have the high-speed access they need to get other things for free. We forget that there’s a whole lot of people who don’t fit into that demographic, and that in times of economic stress - like now - the number of people who really, actually need libraries will grow.

But beyond this, there’s what might be called a sort of historical disinterest in libraries here. It has, perhaps, something to do with Lancaster County’s relatively low level of educational attainment (itself partially but not wholly attributable to the Amish factor). According to the Lancaster Economy Report, issued in May by the Local Economy Center at Franklin & Marshall College, Lancaster County has a higher percentage of people who have never graduated high school than both the region (Perry, Cumberland, Dauphin, York, Lebanon and Berks counties) and the state; the number of people here who have any college education is lower in both cases, as well.

At the same time, our per-capita library spending is way below the region and the state; in 2005, we spent $13,89 per capita, while the region spent $18.62, and the state $24.62.

There’s a correlation, suggests Dr. Antonio Callari, head of the Local Government Center; and it goes back to a relative devaluation of education in Lancaster County. Where, if you think about it, we’ve never had to worry so much about books and book lernin’ - we’ve worked the land; we’ve worked in the manufacturing plants. Libraries have been seen as nice but not necessary, especially when dollars are short.

Callari argues that libraries are more necessary now than ever before - particularly for that segment of the community likely to be left behind as those with the money and the education are able to plow ahead on its own. The latter may not “need” libraries; the former absolutely needs access to the books and the technology and the connectivity that the library system provides - particularly as our economy evolves, and education becomes more important than it has ever been in the past.

But some of us who theoretically don’t “need” libraries still value them for a variety of reasons. They are a good deal - and when you’ve got kids, they help you instill a lifelong love of reading, and of learning. You value them not merely for what they provide to the community, or to some other demographic, but to you. It’s good to see more people coming to that conclusion in terms of patronship. Would be nice to see it translate into a couple more bucks for our libraries, as well.

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  22 comments  Tags: Libraries · Education · Lancaster

There are currently 22 comments on this blog post
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charlie_crystle
8/12/08
11:57 PM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Aug 12 2008, 12:10 PM) [snapback]423219[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.




!profanity! = poop, Gil, you have yet another decent post and you sully it with a comment about the Amish. We have over 490,000 people in the county.How many Amish? About 25,000. Not really enough to bring the average level of education down to anything worth talking about--and how do you know the education level of the Amish? I know some who are brilliant (and I'll introduce you to them sometime). Silly comment.



To your point--the Lancaster County Library just last week did some fantastic research for us. The Business Center staff were incredibly generous and helpful. We should have more branches in the city and throughout the County. Libraries give anyone who wants it the chance to learn, hope, work and dream. A fantastic resource!





gsmart
8/13/08
9:43 AM
QUOTE(charlie_crystle @ Aug 12 2008, 11:57 PM) [snapback]423520[/snapback]

We have over 490,000 people in the county.How many Amish?







Actually, in a 2001 estimate the number of Old Order Amish, Old Order Mennonites and members of other Plain congregations were thought to be about 50,000 - 10 percent of the population.



That absolutely skews the numbers - and again, it's not me saying this/making this up; the assertion comes from F&M's local economy center, which downplays the impact of the Plain on our relatively low levels of education, but says those low levels exist for other reasons, as detailed in the original post.

LicenseForMayhem
8/13/08
9:49 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]423627[/snapback]




Actually, in a 2001 estimate the number of Old Order Amish, Old Order Mennonites and members of other Plain congregations were thought to be about 50,000 - 10 percent of the population.


Not to nitpick, Gil, and maybe you don't know, but did the "Plain" congregations include all Anabaptist groups or just those on the more conervative end?
gsmart
8/13/08
10:23 AM
QUOTE(LicenseForMayhem @ Aug 13 2008, 09:49 AM) [snapback]423632[/snapback]

Not to nitpick, Gil, and maybe you don't know, but did the "Plain" congregations include all Anabaptist groups or just those on the more conervative end?




I honestly don't know, as it was an estimate quoted in a Jack Brubaker column here at the paper. But, in the same piece, Brubaker reported that experts believe the Amish population, at least, doubles every 20 years or so.

So the point, I think, is that however the Amish population skews the "education" question now - it might do so to an even greater degree in the future.

LicenseForMayhem
8/13/08
10:27 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 10:23 AM) [snapback]423655[/snapback]




I honestly don't know, as it was an estimate quoted in a Jack Brubaker column here at the paper. But, in the same piece, Brubaker reported that experts believe the Amish population, at least, doubles every 20 years or so.

So the point, I think, is that however the Amish population skews the "education" question now - it might do so to an even greater degree in the future.



I wonder how I can find out. If they are lumping in, because of the Anabaptist connection, say, a Neffsville Mennonite Church--where most of the under-50 crowd has at least a 4-year degree--and those Mennonite congregations where most people did only complete high school or less, they are making a big, incorrect assumption.
AngelFace
8/13/08
10:33 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 10:23 AM) [snapback]423655[/snapback]

I honestly don't know, as it was an estimate quoted in a Jack Brubaker column here at the paper. But, in the same piece, Brubaker reported that experts believe the Amish population, at least, doubles every 20 years or so.

So the point, I think, is that however the Amish population skews the "education" question now - it might do so to an even greater degree in the future.



Let's administer a standardized to test all Lancaster County H.S. students, and the same test to Amish 8th graders. I think you would be shocked at the results. You think the Amish skew education DOWNWARD??? Only if you are looking at grade completed, in a vacuum. If you look at how EDUCATED they are, I'll put my money on their 8th grade education. At least they can READ. We crank out a lot of kids from 12th grade who CANNOT.
gsmart
8/13/08
10:33 AM
QUOTE(LicenseForMayhem @ Aug 13 2008, 10:27 AM) [snapback]423656[/snapback]

I wonder how I can find out.




Ah, and here The Google helps:

Lancaster County's Anabaptist population, which includes Amish, Brethren, Mennonites and United Zion, is approximately 52,000.

According to Raber's 2004 Almanac, Lancaster County's Amish population was 25,200.

That's from the PA Dutch Convention & Visitors Bureau. So it seems those at the Neffsville church would be lumped in, perhaps incorrectly. But, if these numbers are correct (and they're probably as close to correct as we'll get), the Amish population alone constitutes about 5 percent of the entire county population.
LicenseForMayhem
8/13/08
10:37 AM
Thanks for the Google, Gil. That's a real Google. Yes, if all Anabaptists are lumped in a category from which conclusions are drawn about their level of education, that seems to be in error.
harv1
8/13/08
11:04 AM
It's book larnin' not lernin' smile.gif
littledutchboy
8/13/08
11:05 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]423627[/snapback]




Actually, in a 2001 estimate the number of Old Order Amish, Old Order Mennonites and members of other Plain congregations were thought to be about 50,000 - 10 percent of the population.



That absolutely skews the numbers - and again, it's not me saying this/making this up; the assertion comes from F&M's local economy center, which downplays the impact of the Plain on our relatively low levels of education, but says those low levels exist for other reasons, as detailed in the original post.





If we are going to talk about the Amish and their low graduation rates lets talk about the Latino’s and their horrific stats.



A study of ether group will not fully explain Lancaster County, Lancaster County has a large number of self employed people that are mowing grass, landscaping, installing or power washing decks or doing what ever. My father owner his own small business and so do I. Hard work and self determination trumps book learnen.



As for our library system, do they really need to be in the DVD movie business? Do we really need library satellites all over the county? (we do have public transportation) Our libraries can’t be all things to all people, like most public institutions libraries want to continually expand and grow providing more and more. Maybe it’s time to redefine the role of libraries.



I read 3 mags and 1 hard bound every mouth and have been to the library 1 time, I personally don’t need it.



WinstonTheLastHuman
8/13/08
11:13 AM
QUOTE(AngelFace @ Aug 13 2008, 10:33 AM) [snapback]423660[/snapback]

Let's administer a standardized to test all Lancaster County H.S. students, and the same test to Amish 8th graders.

Ironically, it is the lack of standardization that enables the un-schooled to become so educated. (Though I do recognize your facetiousness.)

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm


QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Aug 12 2008, 12:10 PM) [snapback]423219[/snapback]

Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


I am of the opinion the libraries here are horrendous (compared to other places I have lived). The exception is the F&M library. For $25 a year, anyone can have access (note: I cant vouch for the fiction section). Parking sux, so ride a bike if you can!
dragonrider
8/13/08
11:22 AM
QUOTE(littledutchboy @ Aug 13 2008, 11:05 AM) [snapback]423678[/snapback]




If we are going to talk about the Amish and their low graduation rates lets talk about the Latino's and their horrific stats.

[/size]

A study of ether group will not fully explain Lancaster County, Lancaster County has a large number of self employed people that are mowing grass, landscaping, installing or power washing decks or doing what ever. My father owner his own small business and so do I. Hard work and self determination trumps book learnen.



As for our library system, do they really need to be in the DVD movie business? Do we really need library satellites all over the county? (we do have public transportation) Our libraries can't be all things to all people, like most public institutions libraries want to continually expand and grow providing more and more. Maybe it's time to redefine the role of libraries.



[size="3"]I read 3 mags and 1 hard bound every mouth and have been to the library 1 time, I personally don't need it.




If you are an example of anabaptist education, well nuff said.
charlie_crystle
8/13/08
3:58 PM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]423627[/snapback]


Actually, in a 2001 estimate the number of Old Order Amish, Old Order Mennonites and members of other Plain congregations were thought to be about 50,000 - 10 percent of the population.


That absolutely skews the numbers - and again, it's not me saying this/making this up; the assertion comes from F&M's local economy center, which downplays the impact of the Plain on our relatively low levels of education, but says those low levels exist for other reasons, as detailed in the original post.


Ok, here we go--your sentence:



QUOTE
"It has, perhaps, something to do with Lancaster County's relatively low level of educational attainment (itself partially but not wholly attributable to the Amish factor)."


You weren't including Mennonites,and nor was I when I put the number at 25,000.

LicenseForMayhem
8/14/08
8:04 AM
QUOTE(WinstonTheLastHuman @ Aug 13 2008, 11:13 AM) [snapback]423679[/snapback]


I am of the opinion the libraries here are horrendous (compared to other places I have lived). The exception is the F&M library. For $25 a year, anyone can have access (note: I cant vouch for the fiction section).


I have thought the same thing since high school, when I found the Lancaster Library woefully inadequate for researching nearly anything. The books were outdated, and the collection was very spotty. (There'd be 20 books on, say, Japanese art--probably donated by someone with a keen interest in the topic) and nothing except references in a few survey books to the Wyeths.) Maybe it has improved somewhat since then, but I have always preferred F&M's library for non-fiction.
AngelFace
8/14/08
2:26 PM
QUOTE(LicenseForMayhem @ Aug 14 2008, 08:04 AM) [snapback]424015[/snapback]

I have thought the same thing since high school, when I found the Lancaster Library woefully inadequate for researching nearly anything. The books were outdated, and the collection was very spotty. (There'd be 20 books on, say, Japanese art--probably donated by someone with a keen interest in the topic) and nothing except references in a few survey books to the Wyeths.) Maybe it has improved somewhat since then, but I have always preferred F&M's library for non-fiction.


The irony is that each year thousands and thousands of beautiful books are donated and they end up at the library sale instead of on the shelves, because the library would rather have the cash to buy best sellers rather than the lovely art books for their shelves. When my dad died, we donated many many art books -- including Wyeth. None of them went into the library's permanent collection. That is why we stopped giving books of any value.
dc
8/14/08
2:41 PM
QUOTE(littledutchboy @ Aug 13 2008, 11:05 AM) [snapback]423678[/snapback]
I read 3 mags and 1 hard bound every mouth and have been to the library 1 time, I personally don't need it.
You do not need it NOW. This is what you should be saying. In a few years, when your child starts reading, you will GREATLY appreciate your library. Because unless you are planning on buying a lot of books, you will be a regular visitor..........
reese
8/14/08
7:39 PM
QUOTE(AngelFace @ Aug 14 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]424228[/snapback]


The irony is that each year thousands and thousands of beautiful books are donated and they end up at the library sale instead of on the shelves, because the library would rather have the cash to buy best sellers rather than the lovely art books for their shelves. When my dad died, we donated many many art books -- including Wyeth. None of them went into the library's permanent collection. That is why we stopped giving books of any value.




I made the mistake of taking the time to donate books to my local library once. The books were in nearly new condition, most of them recent best sellers. I had three large boxes. Do you think anyone even bothered to say "thank you," let alone hold a door open for me when I was lugging those boxes into the library? Nope. And I would be willing to bet those books were sold, just like you said.



Never again. The books I buy now, I keep. If I ever feel the need to make space for my bookshelves I'll take the unwanted books to a consignment shop. I'm not making the same mistake again. Fie on the local library.

lanzate
8/14/08
9:46 PM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 13 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]423627[/snapback]


That absolutely skews the numbers - and again, it's not me saying this/making this up; the assertion comes from F&M's local economy center, which downplays the impact of the Plain on our relatively low levels of education, but says those low levels exist for other reasons, as detailed in the original post.



So this is also part of your 50,000 with "low levels" of education?

[attachmentid=2280]


Taken from Lancaster Mennonite's website.

Gil, you really should check your facts before you slam a people group.
dragonrider
8/15/08
12:45 PM
QUOTE(dc @ Aug 14 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]424240[/snapback]
You do not need it NOW. This is what you should be saying. In a few years, when your child starts reading, you will GREATLY appreciate your library. Because unless you are planning on buying a lot of books, you will be a regular visitor..........
When so many retired folks have trouble paying their rent buying food and paying for their drugs whats wrong with having a library where some retired folks can go get some books and magazines to read. Does everything have to be about YOU

LDB

dc
8/15/08
1:02 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 15 2008, 12:45 PM) [snapback]424591[/snapback]
When so many retired folks have trouble paying their rent buying food and paying for their drugs whats wrong with having a library where some retired folks can go get some books and magazines to read. Does everything have to be about YOU
Where did I say that it is about me?? I was pointing out that something that appears to be not needed at the present time could become a necessity later on......
dragonrider
8/15/08
2:05 PM
QUOTE(dc @ Aug 15 2008, 01:02 PM) [snapback]424599[/snapback]
Where did I say that it is about me?? I was pointing out that something that appears to be not needed at the present time could become a necessity later on......
Sorry if you read this post was in addition to yours directed at LDB who seems rather short sighted on the issue of the importance of a public library.
dc
8/15/08
2:08 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Aug 15 2008, 02:05 PM) [snapback]424624[/snapback]
Sorry if you read this post was in addition to yours directed at LDB who seems rather short sighted on the issue of the importance of a public library.
Got it. It is all good........
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