Out by 2010?

July 21st, 2008 10:48 am · 22 comments

Continuing the weekend’s theme, we now see that Iraqi officials want the Americans out of their country by 2010.

I’m here to tell you that’s not happening, even if Obama is elected president.

Two thoughts here. The first is that John McCain’s campaign absolutely hits the wall with these developments. Because it places him in the position of having to deny virtually everything that the neoconservatives/warhawks have said these past five years; that the war was all about out American magnanimity in trying to provide the Iraqis with a better life, that all we wanted was the best for them - freedom!

And now the little ingrates are using that freedom to tell us to get lost? How dare they.

So McCain’s in the position of telling the Iraqis: We fought this war for your sovereignty, but you don’t know what’s best for you; we do. We’ll tell you when you can have your sovereignty.

And that position simply makes a mockery of everything that came before for the right; forces them to admit that this was never about Iraqi freedom in the first place. That’s a tough pill to swallow, especially in full view of the voters, during an election campaign - stepping up to the plate and saying, yes: It was imperialism all the time.

The second thought has to do with Obama. Now that he’s perceived to be wavering from his commitment to bring the troops home ASAP, the left is getting antsy; and the right is saying, see? He was never All That; and why do we act like he is?

I supported Obama during the primary process primarily because I think he understands why the war in Iraq was a mistake - and I just don’t think Hillary really did. Sure, she regretted her vote, but for political reasons; she was very much of the establishment that, whatever they said publicly at the time, knew this was an imperialistic adventure, and supported that. Obama can make a claim that he wasn’t on that bus, which made him a more credible candidate in my eyes.

But who among us thinks Obama is some sort or real “outsider,” prepared to buck the entire establishment on Iraq, or anything else? Of course he’s going to let facts on the ground determine when he would pull out of Iraq; that was always going to be the case, regardless of what he might have said during the primary season, or what you might have believed.

But I do believe that in the long run, he isn’t as beholden to the imperialistic instinct; may keep fewer troops in country in the short term, and may indeed pull out completely in the long run, which McCain would never do. Moreover, in understanding why Iraq was a bad call, he also understands that bulling your way into war with Iran would also be a bad call; and there is no evidence that McCain grasps this.

Obama’s watchword is “change,” but the change is not going to come quickly, nor be as thorough as many want. It’s like turning a battleship; and Obama remains preferable because he continues to prove that he understands why the battleship must turn, however slowly. Whereas McCain simply stays the course.

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  22 comments  Tags: Obama · John McCain · War in Iraq

There are currently 22 comments on this blog post
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podunk
7/21/08
11:30 AM
We should send them a bill. A couple hundred billion should cover our costs and make us a tidy profit. The new free enterprise world. Our military is the best - then people should pay for their service.
Right of Smart
7/21/08
11:40 AM
Déjà vu



Isn’t this the same subject that you posted before? Just the Lib media machine regurgitating the same old news over and over.

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Please refer to my other post.



“All 67 Muslim led countries will support Obama and not McCain.

Get it! They do.”



How many more times this week will Gil cut and paste related items.

The over/under is 7.



dragonrider
7/21/08
1:54 PM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 21 2008, 11:30 AM) [snapback]413501[/snapback]
We should send them a bill. A couple hundred billion should cover our costs and make us a tidy profit. The new free enterprise world. Our military is the best - then people should pay for their service.
Sounds interesting model for conducting business, you come out to someones house and without permission tear the house down and then charge them demolition and rebuilding costs. Yeah right
podunk
7/21/08
2:37 PM
Yes, read town and city codes. You don't keep up your house, the town or city comes and cleans it up and the homeowner gets a bill or the house gets condemned and auctioned.

Especially when the condition of the newer house is much better then the original one!!
justplainjoe
7/21/08
3:16 PM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 21 2008, 02:37 PM) [snapback]413637[/snapback]
Yes, read town and city codes. You don't keep up your house, the town or city comes and cleans it up and the homeowner gets a bill or the house gets condemned and auctioned.

Especially when the condition of the newer house is much better then the original one!!


now does everyone get to invade other countries on that pretext or just us.

gosh too bad hitler and stalin didn't think of that.

ooops, i forgot, they did.LOL



gosh i s'pose that means iran can just come in and free the palestinians from 40 years of military occupation by israel.

blimey!!!

podunk
7/21/08
3:18 PM
that's what war has been about the past many thousands of years......
dragonrider
7/22/08
2:10 AM
Since we know that neither Bush nor McCain flip flop we know that both will now come out with a timetable for our withdrawal from Iraq as both said that if Iraqi government says we must leave then we will leave. Both said it now all that is left is to decide how that is to be accomplished before the end of 2010.
justplainjoe
7/22/08
5:38 AM
what if they decide to sell their oil to someone else, say the chinese or russians?

do we kill them and start the war all over and therefore prove beyond a doubt it was about oil, or do we allow them to, thereby proving us to be the worlds absolute stupidest chumps?
graphicsully
7/22/08
9:44 AM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 22 2008, 05:38 AM) [snapback]413865[/snapback]

what if they decide to sell their oil to someone else, say the chinese or russians?

do we kill them and start the war all over and therefore prove beyond a doubt it was about oil, or do we allow them to, thereby proving us to be the worlds absolute stupidest chumps?



you really don't know how a free market system works do you? We are not Venezuela.

To respond to Gil, yes we are in charge of deciding when they are ready for sovereignty. They thought that they were ready after desert storm in '91, but the majority shiite's couldn't pull it off without our money, our weapons and our blood. So it's our decision. That's how it works in the real world with the exception of that the victor usually gets the spoils, they don't give them back.

And Israel is occupying land they took after being attacked by 9 other nations. ITS THEIRS NOW! get over it.
dragonrider
7/22/08
1:42 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 09:44 AM) [snapback]413941[/snapback]



you really don't know how a free market system works do you? We are not Venezuela.

To respond to Gil, yes we are in charge of deciding when they are ready for sovereignty. They thought that they were ready after desert storm in '91, but the majority shiite's couldn't pull it off without our money, our weapons and our blood. So it's our decision. That's how it works in the real world with the exception of that the victor usually gets the spoils, they don't give them back.

And Israel is occupying land they took after being attacked by 9 other nations. ITS THEIRS NOW! get over it.
This is the world view that makes the rest of the world think we are arrogant.
justplainjoe
7/22/08
2:05 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 09:44 AM) [snapback]413941[/snapback]



you really don't know how a free market system works do you? We are not Venezuela.


And Israel is occupying land they took after being attacked by 9 other nations. ITS THEIRS NOW! get over it.


uhhh i hate to have to educate you but the people living on those lands did not attack israel, rather the arabs that did attack rolled across that land. so if a guy cuts thru your bneighbors lawn to rob you , you get to steal the neighbors lawn and house?huh?

if castro or chavez did the same that would be okay as well, or do you have 2 sets of standards?

as far as not understanding the markets , nice dodge but that doesn't answer the quuestion. besides you must have forgotten we didn't start the war for oil or markets it was to free those people , remember?LOL

graphicsully
7/22/08
2:06 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 22 2008, 01:42 PM) [snapback]414104[/snapback]

This is the world view that makes the rest of the world think we are arrogant.



WE are the victors and we ARE giving the spoils to the world...we don't have to, but we are...

so what WOULD make the world LIKE us?


screw the world....
dragonrider
7/22/08
2:24 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 02:06 PM) [snapback]414117[/snapback]



WE are the victors and we ARE giving the spoils to the world...we don't have to, but we are...

so what WOULD make the world LIKE us?


screw the world....
Yeah most world tyrants feel this way until they are overthrown.
graphicsully
7/22/08
2:26 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 22 2008, 02:05 PM) [snapback]414116[/snapback]

uhhh i hate to have to educate you but the people living on those lands did not attack israel, rather the arabs that did attack rolled across that land. so if a guy cuts thru your bneighbors lawn to rob you , you get to steal the neighbors lawn and house?huh?

if castro or chavez did the same that would be okay as well, or do you have 2 sets of standards?

as far as not understanding the markets , nice dodge but that doesn't answer the quuestion. besides you must have forgotten we didn't start the war for oil or markets it was to free those people , remember?LOL



your wrong about history. The palestinians were involved along with a certain gorrilla named Yasser Arafat.

And your analogy about Castro and Chavez... what neighbors' land are they using to cross? ...last time I checked there isn't any land between us and Cuba... AND I would think that the neighbor would be aware of a crossing.. and if that neighbor has no intention of stopping this "robber", we certainly have the right to stand on our "good" neighbors land to defend ourselves.
dragonrider
7/22/08
2:49 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]414129[/snapback]



your wrong about history. The palestinians were involved along with a certain gorrilla named Yasser Arafat.

And your analogy about Castro and Chavez... what neighbors' land are they using to cross? ...last time I checked there isn't any land between us and Cuba... AND I would think that the neighbor would be aware of a crossing.. and if that neighbor has no intention of stopping this "robber", we certainly have the right to stand on our "good" neighbors land to defend ourselves.
You related to Himmler or something.
graphicsully
7/22/08
2:56 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 22 2008, 02:49 PM) [snapback]414139[/snapback]

You related to Himmler or something.



so when the facts betray you do you usually revert to name calling?
justplainjoe
7/22/08
3:12 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]414129[/snapback]


and if that neighbor has no intention of stopping this "robber", we certainly have the right to stand on our "good" neighbors land to defend ourselves.


for 40 years?

please , the palestinians were to stop 9 armies. stop making excuses for israel and their human rights abuses just because it is israel.

we allow israel to continue the human rights abuses and yet we pretend we invaded iraq for the same reason.

and if iran did the same thing you would then be on the other side of the same fence.LOL

graphicsully
7/22/08
3:29 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 22 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]414160[/snapback]

for 40 years?

please , the palestinians were to stop 9 armies. stop making excuses for israel and their human rights abuses just because it is israel.

we allow israel to continue the human rights abuses and yet we pretend we invaded iraq for the same reason.

and if iran did the same thing you would then be on the other side of the same fence.LOL



in the past 40 years the Palestinians have had every chance at peace but continue to blow themselves up. Compare it to Ireland and England. You don't see the IRA still blowing themselves up to "free" Iraland from occupation of the "red coats". ...


dragonrider
7/22/08
6:46 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 02:56 PM) [snapback]414148[/snapback]



so when the facts betray you do you usually revert to name calling?
Yeah learned that tatic from my budy BS
justplainjoe
7/22/08
7:21 PM
QUOTE(graphicsully @ Jul 22 2008, 03:29 PM) [snapback]414177[/snapback]



in the past 40 years the Palestinians have had every chance at peace but continue to blow themselves up. Compare it to Ireland and England. You don't see the IRA still blowing themselves up to "free" Iraland from occupation of the "red coats". ...


yes they could have had peace except that israel keeps stealing land and building more settlements despite promising that they would stop.


graphicsully
7/23/08
8:48 AM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 22 2008, 07:21 PM) [snapback]414239[/snapback]

yes they could have had peace except that israel keeps stealing land and building more settlements despite promising that they would stop.



I understand now... so if my neighbor builds a shed on my property, I'm gonna send my son over to his house and blow it and himself up...

and to think that society has progressed with civil discourse, that must have been a mistake, thank you for enlighting the world as how to accomplish your goals.
bigstew
7/23/08
6:52 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 22 2008, 06:46 PM) [snapback]414235[/snapback]
Yeah learned that tatic from my budy BS
And I see your keyboard is still on the fritz. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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