More on the Nation of Whiners

July 11th, 2008 9:31 am · 50 comments

Phil Gramm’s comment continues to be batted around, and rightly so. McCain has ditstanced himself from the comment - but I get the idea that this is really what the right-wingers think; that the economy is doing just fine, and even if not it’s just a temporary bump, you live in the best country in the world and blah and blah so shut your mouth and stop criticizing.

Indeed, the other day my right-wing correspondent demands off me: I want evidence how the “Bush economy” has impacted you personally. But of course it has - in higher gas prices to begin with, but moreover how higher diesel prices have spurred inflation like I’ve never seen in my adult lifetime; and how this winter is going to be a disaster, an absolute disaster, however you choose to heat your home.

One can only imagine how the usual right-wing suspects will react once we or Israel attack Iran and send the price of oil skyrocketing. Anyone who has a problem with gas at $6 or above will be “whining,” and it will again be: Shut your mouth and stop criticizing, you live in the greatest nation in the history of the world so be glad with what you have and cancel your cable and cell phone if things are really that bad.

Republicans: Bombing both Iran, and the United States, back to the stone age.

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  50 comments  Tags: Economy · War in Iran

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dragonrider
7/11/08
10:10 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Jul 11 2008, 09:35 AM) [snapback]410252[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
As one commentator put it last night these guys sit around with a bunch of millionaires who have no clue how someone living on $10 is fairing with 4 a gallon gas. Sure if all you talk to are millionaires everything is hunky dory and if you don't agree you must be a whiner. After all these are the same folks who think tax cuts for millionaires are tax cuts for everyone.
rotenone
7/12/08
7:16 AM
You know, of course, that right wingers will overlook the true causes of this economic mess, and--despite 12 years of a Republican-controlled Congress and more than seven years of a Republican administration--they will fall back on their old standby: "Bill Clinton did it." But, assuming, just for a moment and just for the sake of argument, that such a statement could somehow be true, couldn't the Republicans, in all that time, have passed legislation and implemented policies to head off problems? Instead, they did nothing, except get bogged down in a foreign war as war profiteers got richer and the economy continued to fail. They allowed U.S. jobs to be exported overseas, because of the forces of of "globalization," as they termed it, which, translated, means the forces of "corporate greed."
So it's not surprising that Phil Gramm, a staunch Republican, labels those who are struggling economically as "whiners." And since he is closely allied with John McCain, one can reasonably assume McCain is in agreement with him on economic philosophies near and dear to most Republicans: deficit spending and tax cuts for the wealthy, to name only two. The latter is an extension of supply-side economics, also termed "trickle-down," the name of which I've always thought was a joke at the expense of the middle class, but which brings to mind a line from the film The Outlaw Josey Wales: "Don't !profanity! down my back and tell me it's raining."
podunk
7/12/08
7:20 AM
I can't wait for the liberals to be in control. Tax increases, more social programs, higher interest rates, higher unemployment and more nanny laws is just what our country needs to flourish in the 21st century!
rotenone
7/12/08
7:28 AM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 07:20 AM) [snapback]410488[/snapback]

I can't wait for the liberals to be in control. Tax increases, more social programs, higher interest rates, higher unemployment and more nanny laws is just what our country needs to flourish in the 21st century!

Do you mean as opposed to the way the country has been flourishing since the conservatives took control?

podunk
7/12/08
7:29 AM
It wasn't doing bad until the dems lied their way into control of Congress. Foreshadowing?
justplainjoe
7/12/08
7:59 AM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 07:29 AM) [snapback]410491[/snapback]
It wasn't doing bad until the dems lied their way into control of Congress. Foreshadowing?


which specific policies did the dems force on the country in the last 18 months that caused oil prices to skyrocket the dollar to drop like a frozen dog turd, and the deficit and corresponding debt to increse exponentially?

if there were any did bush veto them? did they over ride the vetoes?

of course mccain has said many times that peoples suffering is "psychological" and they should get three jobs if need be.

if his wife can charge $750,000 worth of goodies in one month how bad can the economy be?LOL







QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 07:20 AM) [snapback]410488[/snapback]
I can't wait for the liberals to be in control. Tax increases, more social programs, higher interest rates, higher unemployment and more nanny laws is just what our country needs to flourish in the 21st century!


tax increases on the wealthy worked under clinton and we all prospered, rich and not rich alike.

of course mccain wants to make permanent the 15% tax rate for billionaires like himself and his wife, phil gramm and his old lady who helped enron nearly bankrupt california, while taxing joe sixpack at twice that rate.

i say bravo johnny!! you get out there and push for that , shout it from the house tops. go tell 'em that if oil speculators have to pay the same as us slobs we will have an economic disaster.LOL

oh and have that crooked pos silly philly gramm out there calling the suffering masses whiners, while he and his old lady got filthy rich selling us out.

nice touch.LOL

podunk
7/12/08
7:59 AM
QUOTE
said many times that peoples suffering is "psychological"

Hmmm...... that sounds familiar.....

The dems are not doing anything. That is the problem. They made promises and are not keeping them. Long term strategy? Let the country go to crap so they can blame the Republicans in an attempt to win elections? Sad part is they put their careers and desires before the betterment of our country. Sound familiar also? Keep seeing these posts how the dems will solve our problems. Never see the proof.
justplainjoe
7/12/08
8:12 AM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 07:59 AM) [snapback]410496[/snapback]

Hmmm...... that sounds familiar.....

The dems are not doing anything. That is the problem. They made promises and are not keeping them. Long term strategy? Let the country go to crap so they can blame the Republicans in an attempt to win elections? Sad part is they put their careers and desires before the betterment of our country. Sound familiar also? Keep seeing these posts how the dems will solve our problems. Never see the proof.


i agree. the dems aren't doing anyhting even symbolically. the more misery the more votes. it's a scam. the repubs come in and cut taxes on the rich and the rich make out even in a bad economy. the dems come in and raise taxes on the rich and the economy booms and once again the wealthy make out. the little guy gets ahead and the repubs come in and take it away with mortgage scams and high oil prices and s&l scandals and manipulation of the economy thru sabre rattling and any other means to transfer the accumulated wealth albeit small, to the rich.



podunk
7/12/08
8:30 AM
So what can be learned from that?

A: the rich ALWAYS make out - they control the politicians and always will

B: the politicians cater to the rich because they need them to get elected and enjoy the kickbacks - even if they lose re-election they go work for the rich folks with high-paying cushy jobs

C: don't fall for either parties talking points (like tax cuts for the wealthy or liberals are all atheists)
Calico
7/12/08
8:47 AM
We no longer have democracy, we have facism: the marriage of business and governement. That's why the conservatives say things are fine, because business can still make money, and screw the people.


TaintMan
7/12/08
9:09 AM
How about a nation of Winos?
podunk
7/12/08
9:19 AM
QUOTE
screw the people

I know! Life in America really sucks!! blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif
Christopher
7/12/08
10:34 AM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 07:29 AM) [snapback]410491[/snapback]
It wasn't doing bad until the dems lied their way into control of Congress. Foreshadowing?


What planet do you live on?

Really, it's only gotten bad since Jan. of 2007?

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

dragonrider
7/12/08
10:45 AM
QUOTE(TaintMan @ Jul 12 2008, 09:09 AM) [snapback]410506[/snapback]
How about a nation of Winos?
Can't even get a decent wine at a state run liqour store and the price of wine at those state stores. Heck in WV I could have got a decent bottle of wine in the grocery store for $8. In Pa I can't even afford to get drunk.
podunk
7/12/08
11:23 AM
QUOTE
What planet do you live on?
Really, it's only gotten bad since Jan. of 2007?

rolleyes.gif
If you need some cute charts to help you out:
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3024-ecocharts.html
A1
7/12/08
11:28 AM
If reading TB is typical of the nation, it sure looks like a nation of whiners to me. rolleyes.gif
Christopher
7/12/08
12:54 PM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 11:23 AM) [snapback]410531[/snapback]

rolleyes.gif
If you need some cute charts to help you out:
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3024-ecocharts.html


Pretty funny. Most of your 'cute charts' indicate the negative trends began before 2007. Or maybe you're operating under the illusion the policies of the six years before that have nothing to do with when things began going south. Things don't turn on a dime. It takes lots of incompetency to get the bad mojo going, and we've had plenty of that.

cool.gif

podunk
7/12/08
1:15 PM
QUOTE
Things don't turn on a dime.

That's funny!! So, Clinton's policies were not all that wonderful??

QUOTE
negative trends began before 2007

[attachmentid=2158]

I guess Democrats just make the nation 'feel' bad about itself.... ohmy.gif
dragonrider
7/12/08
1:52 PM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 01:15 PM) [snapback]410548[/snapback]

That's funny!! So, Clinton's policies were not all that wonderful??


[attachmentid=2158]

I guess Democrats just make the nation 'feel' bad about itself.... ohmy.gif
When Clinton was pres and repugnicans were in charge it was the presidents fault now that the shoe is on the other foot its congress' fault . Repugnicans need little Billy from family circus to run for office so when things go wrong he can say when asked who did this, who is responsible, NOT ME
rotenone
7/13/08
12:55 PM
QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 12 2008, 01:15 PM) [snapback]410548[/snapback]

That's funny!! So, Clinton's policies were not all that wonderful??
[attachmentid=2158]

I guess Democrats just make the nation 'feel' bad about itself.... ohmy.gif

What do you think of this chart?
http://bp3.blogger.com/_8UBxF2HX9R8/SCrVc1...00-h/000000.jpg
dragonrider
7/13/08
3:07 PM
QUOTE(rotenone @ Jul 13 2008, 12:55 PM) [snapback]410762[/snapback]
Its the democrats fault LOL, FOFLMFAO
rotenone
7/13/08
3:57 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 13 2008, 03:07 PM) [snapback]410784[/snapback]

Its the democrats fault LOL, FOFLMFAO

Those rotten Democrats!!!
bigstew
7/13/08
9:00 PM
QUOTE
repubs come in and take it away with mortgage scams and high oil prices

Which politician of either party is responsible for the price of oil, and mortgage scams? And back it up please.
dragonrider
7/13/08
10:51 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 13 2008, 09:00 PM) [snapback]410844[/snapback]

Which politician of either party is responsible for the price of oil, and mortgage scams? And back it up please.
Why you won;t read any of the cited articles anyway.
AngelFace
7/13/08
11:51 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 13 2008, 09:00 PM) [snapback]410844[/snapback]

Which politician of either party is responsible for the price of oil, and mortgage scams? And back it up please.


Give it up, stew. You are not going to get any sane answers back. It is just going to be wisecracks. Like you have told me, and you were always right, they won't answer. They just keep asking their own questions and dodging any real conversation.
justplainjoe
7/14/08
12:42 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 13 2008, 09:00 PM) [snapback]410844[/snapback]

Which politician of either party is responsible for the mortgage scams? And back it up please.


you probably won't bother to read it anyway

phil gramm

http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2767



"The work of this Congress will be seen as a watershed where we turned away from an outmoded Depression-era approach to financial regulation and adopted a framework that will position our financial services industry to be world leaders into the new century," Gramm said.

Watershed indeed. With the U.S. economy now battered by a tsunami of mortgage foreclosures, the $30-billion Bear Stearns Companies bailout and spiking food and energy prices, many congressional leaders and Wall Street analysts are questioning the wisdom of the radical deregulation launched by Gramm's legislative package. Financial wizard Warren Buffett has labeled the risky new investment instruments Gramm unleashed "financial weapons of mass destruction." They have fed the subprime mortgage crisis like an accelerant. While his distracted peers probably finalized their Christmas gift lists, Gramm created what Wall Street analysts now refer to as the "shadow banking system," an industry that operates outside any government oversight, but, as witnessed by the Bear Stearns debacle, requiring rescue by taxpayers to avert a national economic catastrophe.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/...st_read_346.php



Gramm took to the Senate floor on Dec. 15, 2000 -- just two days after the U.S. Supreme Court handed down the Bush v. Gore decision -- and inserted a 262-page measure into a massive budget bill.

The act, he declared, would ensure that neither the [SEC] nor the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] got into the business of regulating newfangled financial products called swaps--and would thus "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century."



dragonrider
7/14/08
1:07 AM
QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 13 2008, 11:51 PM) [snapback]410911[/snapback]


Give it up, stew. You are not going to get any sane answers back. It is just going to be wisecracks. Like you have told me, and you were always right, they won't answer. They just keep asking their own questions and dodging any real conversation.
Really I cited the news paper the subject and the day it was published that is more than I see from your side. If you can't find the info based on subject, news paper and date , not my fault you are inept.

Shawn
7/14/08
8:56 AM
QUOTE(A1 @ Jul 12 2008, 11:28 AM) [snapback]410535[/snapback]
If reading TB is typical of the nation, it sure looks like a nation of whiners to me. rolleyes.gif




Not just whiners, Bitter Whiners.



Later...Shawn

littledutchboy
7/14/08
9:22 AM
I’m still trying to figure out what everyone is complaining about; those who based their finances on the hopes of never ending overtime where foolish, those that opted for adjustable rate mortgages at a time when interest rates are at all time lows where foolish, the same for those that bought way too much house compared to their income, those that drive 40K 13 mile to a gal SUV’s are foolish, those that pay twice as much for prepared food at the grocery store are foolish, convenience store shopping, foolish, fast food, foolish. I could go on….and on.



How does the President or congress make the American people do foolish things? blink.gif

podunk
7/14/08
10:08 AM
QUOTE
What do you think of this chart?

I think that is a damn shame! Hence why the 'conservative' party has shown that it is not so conservative. However, to think the 'liberal' party is going to step in and fix the problem is a bigger joke. Didn't see any bills or headlines from the 'liberal' party to balance the budget for stop the overspending. They jumped on the bandwagon and said "I'll vote for that", if you give me $100 million for my pet project.
bigstew
7/14/08
6:02 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 14 2008, 12:42 AM) [snapback]410932[/snapback]


you probably won't bother to read it anyway

phil gramm

http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2767



"The work of this Congress will be seen as a watershed where we turned away from an outmoded Depression-era approach to financial regulation and adopted a framework that will position our financial services industry to be world leaders into the new century," Gramm said.

Watershed indeed. With the U.S. economy now battered by a tsunami of mortgage foreclosures, the $30-billion Bear Stearns Companies bailout and spiking food and energy prices, many congressional leaders and Wall Street analysts are questioning the wisdom of the radical deregulation launched by Gramm's legislative package. Financial wizard Warren Buffett has labeled the risky new investment instruments Gramm unleashed "financial weapons of mass destruction." They have fed the subprime mortgage crisis like an accelerant. While his distracted peers probably finalized their Christmas gift lists, Gramm created what Wall Street analysts now refer to as the "shadow banking system," an industry that operates outside any government oversight, but, as witnessed by the Bear Stearns debacle, requiring rescue by taxpayers to avert a national economic catastrophe.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/...st_read_346.php



Gramm took to the Senate floor on Dec. 15, 2000 -- just two days after the U.S. Supreme Court handed down the Bush v. Gore decision -- and inserted a 262-page measure into a massive budget bill.

The act, he declared, would ensure that neither the [SEC] nor the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] got into the business of regulating newfangled financial products called swaps--and would thus "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century."



I read it joe, and while you managed to pick the only liberal paper in texas, I found that reading it was repetitive. It droned on and on, repeating that gramm's addition made all this happen, and while I am not sure about it either way, it never explained how the legislation accomplished all of this. Or what was in it, and what did it change?



It might as well said:

Once upon a time, all was good in the land, then someone sneakily changed something, and everything went bad. And so and so agreed that he that changeth did bad, and so and so also agreed. And since things have been bad.

dragonrider
7/14/08
10:44 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 14 2008, 06:02 PM) [snapback]411205[/snapback]
I read it joe, and while you managed to pick the only liberal paper in texas, I found that reading it was repetitive. It droned on and on, repeating that gramm's addition made all this happen, and while I am not sure about it either way, it never explained how the legislation accomplished all of this. Or what was in it, and what did it change?



It might as well said:

Once upon a time, all was good in the land, then someone sneakily changed something, and everything went bad. And so and so agreed that he that changeth did bad, and so and so also agreed. And since things have been bad.

Can you translate this into something that makes sense?
lee41
7/15/08
1:17 AM
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 amended the Commodity Exchange Act to effectively deregulate some aspects of commodities trading. Commodities sold on NYNEX are regulated. The CFMA basically allowed commodities (including oil and mortgages packaged as securities) to be traded on unregulated electronic exchanges, free from oversight.

Here is a good explanation:

http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace/story/659081.html

Connecting the dots: Enron wanted to make a profit by playing with energy futures, but doing so was illegal under the CEA. In 1993, Phil Gramm's wife joined Enron's Board. The Texas Congressional delegation (including Gramm, the #2 Enron contributee) tried to push through the deregulation Enron wanted, but it was dead in Committee. As a last minute hail mary, Gramm got the CFMA inserted into an appropriations bill in the House/Senate conference report.

This is why this deregulation is referred to as the 'Enron Loophole'.

Enron made billions, energy prices spiked, California had rolling blackouts. Then price controls were applied and Enron's financial ship became the Titanic, unable to offset its massive debt without the revenue from manipulating energy prices.

In this case, the whiners were Ken Lay and Enron. They were whining that the big bad federal government would not let them make money in the unregulated energy markets. They spent millions lobbying Congress. Their whining paid off - in the short term.

People here have said energy futures cannot be manipulated to spike prices, but that is exactly what Enron did. As the above article shows, Enron's 'dark' energy market idea was resurrected by oil companies and major investment houses. Not surprisingly, Goldman Sachs, part owner of the ICE, was reported to be one of the largest holders of oil futures. And the ICE handles not only oil futures, but mortgage-based securities.

The Enron crisis, the energy crisis, and the mortgage crisis - all have the CFMA in common.
justplainjoe
7/15/08
6:07 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 14 2008, 06:02 PM) [snapback]411205[/snapback]
I read it joe, and while you managed to pick the only liberal paper in texas, I found that reading it was repetitive. It droned on and on, repeating that gramm's addition made all this happen, and while I am not sure about it either way, it never explained how the legislation accomplished all of this. Or what was in it, and what did it change?



It might as well said:

Once upon a time, all was good in the land, then someone sneakily changed something, and everything went bad. And so and so agreed that he that changeth did bad, and so and so also agreed. And since things have been bad.



well then do your own research and either prove me wrong or prove me right. either way you shall be richly rewarded because you tried.



QUOTE(lee41 @ Jul 15 2008, 01:17 AM) [snapback]411306[/snapback]
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 amended the Commodity Exchange Act to effectively deregulate some aspects of commodities trading. Commodities sold on NYNEX are regulated. The CFMA basically allowed commodities (including oil and mortgages packaged as securities) to be traded on unregulated electronic exchanges, free from oversight.

Here is a good explanation:

http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace/story/659081.html

Connecting the dots: Enron wanted to make a profit by playing with energy futures, but doing so was illegal under the CEA. In 1993, Phil Gramm's wife joined Enron's Board. The Texas Congressional delegation (including Gramm, the #2 Enron contributee) tried to push through the deregulation Enron wanted, but it was dead in Committee. As a last minute hail mary, Gramm got the CFMA inserted into an appropriations bill in the House/Senate conference report.

This is why this deregulation is referred to as the 'Enron Loophole'.

Enron made billions, energy prices spiked, California had rolling blackouts. Then price controls were applied and Enron's financial ship became the Titanic, unable to offset its massive debt without the revenue from manipulating energy prices.

In this case, the whiners were Ken Lay and Enron. They were whining that the big bad federal government would not let them make money in the unregulated energy markets. They spent millions lobbying Congress. Their whining paid off - in the short term.

People here have said energy futures cannot be manipulated to spike prices, but that is exactly what Enron did. As the above article shows, Enron's 'dark' energy market idea was resurrected by oil companies and major investment houses. Not surprisingly, Goldman Sachs, part owner of the ICE, was reported to be one of the largest holders of oil futures. And the ICE handles not only oil futures, but mortgage-based securities.

The Enron crisis, the energy crisis, and the mortgage crisis - all have the CFMA in common.


the bottom line is that we need regulation to protect us from vultures like phil gramm and his wife and enron, oil speculators, and the mortgage banks and the corporate raiders who have no regard for americans. they only care about satisfying their own greed.

degregulation sounds romantic to the fool when espoused by sorcerers apprentices lkie phil gramm but they only enable the crooks to steal more as evidenced by enron, the s&l scandal, the sub prime mortgage scandal, etc.

deregulation is a crock. there are just too many dishonest americans for that to work.

iconoclast
7/15/08
6:28 AM
Bread and circus ensures a vacuous collective mindset; homeland branding and fear of nebulous bogeymen ensures a wave of jingoistic plastic patriotism; us vs them ensures a divided discourse; resulting in a government of fascists, no matter the party affiliation.

A "nation of whiners," nah; a nation of ignorant cowards.

ph34r.gif

bigstew
7/15/08
10:20 PM
QUOTE
well then do your own research and either prove me wrong or prove me right. either way you shall be richly rewarded because you tried.

It was your point to make not mine. I only read the link you used to prove your point, which really lacked in its explanation.

QUOTE
A "nation of whiners," nah; a nation of ignorant cowards.

Coward to what?
dragonrider
7/16/08
1:35 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 15 2008, 10:20 PM) [snapback]411633[/snapback]

It was your point to make not mine. I only read the link you used to prove your point, which really lacked in its explanation.


Coward to what?
More deep stinking from the big phew.
justplainjoe
7/16/08
6:12 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 15 2008, 10:20 PM) [snapback]411633[/snapback]

It was your point to make not mine. I only read the link you used to prove your point, which really lacked in its explanation.



you asked a question and you got an answer. the fact that you didn't grasp the significance is your problem not mine.

people hear only what they want to hear to validate themselves and their beliefs so believe away, it won't change things for me but it will for you.

as you believe so shall it be done unto you. believe that gramm is a model citizen and he becomes a model citizenin stew's world.

far be it for me to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.



iconoclast
7/16/08
6:21 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 15 2008, 10:20 PM) [snapback]411633[/snapback]

It was your point to make not mine. I only read the link you used to prove your point, which really lacked in its explanation.


Coward to what?




If I have to explain, you still won't get it... Coward to not having the cojones to change the system...coward to cowering in a corner and whining rather than stepping up and making change...coward to; oh, never mind...

ph34r.gif

dragonrider
7/16/08
7:11 AM
QUOTE(iconoclast @ Jul 16 2008, 06:21 AM) [snapback]411679[/snapback]




If I have to explain, you still won't get it... Coward to not having the cojones to change the system...coward to cowering in a corner and whining rather than stepping up and making change...coward to; oh, never mind...

ph34r.gif

The bigstink never really has a point.
bigstew
7/16/08
8:03 PM
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 16 2008, 07:11 AM) [snapback]411691[/snapback]
The bigstink never really has a point.
Ok hon, I'll respond. Are you gonna stay mad because I spanked you in other threads? Not gonna waste your time in the debate, but throw your quirky little one-liners in there to support your aching ego? Well shoot away sweetie, but be careful, to much of a good thing and I might have to charge you for the therapy. laugh.gif

QUOTE(iconoclast @ Jul 16 2008, 06:21 AM) [snapback]411679[/snapback]




If I have to explain, you still won't get it... Coward to not having the cojones to change the system...coward to cowering in a corner and whining rather than stepping up and making change...coward to; oh, never mind...

ph34r.gif

Well, you were so off topic, I had to ask. Sorry, oh cryptic one. unsure.gif

QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 16 2008, 06:12 AM) [snapback]411678[/snapback]


you asked a question and you got an answer. the fact that you didn't grasp the significance is your problem not mine.

people hear only what they want to hear to validate themselves and their beliefs so believe away, it won't change things for me but it will for you.

as you believe so shall it be done unto you. believe that gramm is a model citizen and he becomes a model citizenin stew's world.

far be it for me to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.



And I had such high hopes for you joe.
justplainjoe
7/16/08
8:23 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 16 2008, 08:03 PM) [snapback]412003[/snapback]

And I had such high hopes for you joe.


thanks. i wish i could say the same!

bigstew
7/16/08
9:54 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 16 2008, 08:23 PM) [snapback]412012[/snapback]


thanks. i wish i could say the same!

I know, must hate repubs-love dems. Moveon.kos wakka wakka wakka.

Sorry joe, I am just not like you, a party tool. laugh.gif

dragonrider
7/17/08
1:23 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 16 2008, 09:54 PM) [snapback]412026[/snapback]
I know, must hate repubs-love dems. Moveon.kos wakka wakka wakka.

Sorry joe, I am just not like you, a party tool. laugh.gif

Gee Big Phew you sure seem popular.
justplainjoe
7/17/08
6:09 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 16 2008, 09:54 PM) [snapback]412026[/snapback]
I know, must hate repubs-love dems. Moveon.kos wakka wakka wakka.

Sorry joe, I am just not like you, a party tool. laugh.gif



i am not a dem. anyone with a modicum of comprehension would know that.

i think you go into reading each post with an attitude of expectancy and so read into things that which is not there.

will i vote for obama? probably but you said you will as well, does that make you a dem?

sometimes dry cleaning ones-self of the emotional baggage that gets picked up along the path can work wonders.

if you need any tips on how to do that , i am at your service.



bigstew
7/17/08
10:13 PM
QUOTE
anyone with a modicum of comprehension would know that.

Anyone with a memory would know that you speak volumes against anything republican, and nary a word on democrats. Out yourself joe. Do not hide the real you.

QUOTE
i am at your service.

I thought you'd like to service me. cool.gif
dragonrider
7/18/08
1:28 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 17 2008, 10:13 PM) [snapback]412402[/snapback]

Anyone with a memory would know that you speak volumes against anything republican, and nary a word on democrats. Out yourself joe. Do not hide the real you.


I thought you'd like to service me. cool.gif
Do you ever add anything to the conversation except your sarcasm which "I feel sorry for you" that that is all you have.
justplainjoe
7/18/08
6:04 AM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 17 2008, 10:13 PM) [snapback]412402[/snapback]

Anyone with a memory would know that you speak volumes against anything republican, and nary a word on democrats. Out yourself joe. Do not hide the real you.




i also said that i admire and respect real conservatives, but i assume you took that as an insult.LOL





QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 17 2008, 10:13 PM) [snapback]412402[/snapback]


I thought you'd like to service me. cool.gif


if you seek relations with a man there are plenty of gay men out there, just give it time and you will find one who will love and respect you.

sorry, i am not gay although i am sometimes mistaken for gay because of my exquisite tastes, good grooming habits, personal hygeine, social conscience, and my love for my neighbor as myself.

i can see how a gay man such as yourself would find me attractive and hope against hope that i am also gay, but sorry, seek elsewhere.

dragonrider
7/18/08
12:59 PM
So good to see you come out of the closet Big Stew but really cruising TB for dates. TSK TSK. I hear that gay men like musicals and there are two musicals in town you might have better luck cruising there. Or you might want to try one of the gay bars in town.
bigstew
7/19/08
12:39 AM
First:
QUOTE
Do you ever add anything to the conversation except your sarcasm



Then:
QUOTE
So good to see you come out of the closet Big Stew but really cruising TB for dates. TSK TSK. I hear that gay men like musicals and there are two musicals in town you might have better luck cruising there. Or you might want to try one of the gay bars in town.
You are getting so easy that it isn't fun anymore. Well, at least you are not ashamed of your hypocrisy. Be proud of who you are sweetheart.
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