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Gil, do you have family that attends a large, evangelical "megachurch"? If so, I'm sure they can illuminate what is most often preached therein. If you can't reach them, it is Love, Tolerance and a calling to the teachings of Jesus Christ:



Spread the Good News (Go forth and make Disciples)



Love one another as I have loved you....



Etc, etc, etc





Stop trying to portray good, honest and caring Christians by the mindless actions or words of a few...even if those few have congregations.

Obviously not all evangelicals believe this tripe; but some do. It’s fringe, but fringe has a way of being closer to the mainstream in Lancaster County.

As a suggestion, why don't you visit some of these Churches if you don't know? Visit Calvary, or LCBC or even a smaller Church like the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Ephrata, or even an out-of-the-way Church like the Bible Fellowship churches in Ephrata (moderate size) and Terre Hill (small). Rather than spouting uninformed nonsense, as you accuse others of doing, get informed.

Have visited LCBC and Calvary. Maybe it was coincidence but 3 of the 4 time I visited some part of the service was anti-gay. Either preaching directly about "reaching out to and saving gays" or side door attacks by promoting 1 female and 1 male as the ONLY type of relationship and family. Yeah, didn't feel too welcome there!

One thing I note in your little blurb there is that you admit that people who subscribe to what most would see as an absurd notion are along the fringes of Christianity...you then go as far as to imply that these fringes may make up a large percentage of Christianity within Lancaster County, yet you admit that you don't know what you're talking about...So, which is it?

Here we go again! You confuse caring about people with attacking them. But hey, if that's what get's yer motor running, have fun.

I really don't understand how you keep your job when you repeatedly insult a huge part of your readership, but then, I'm not from around here originally, and I've noticed that Lancastrians can be a little more forgiving than the people are where I grew up.

You can not say that they are fringe when Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and others have all said these ludicrous things. These are not fringe they are the forfront leaders of the modern conservative evangelical movement. Far from fringe they are mainstream. Thats why in a private meeting Bush jr referred to them a bunch of crazy people. And McBush is a sane moment called them purveyors of hate and division.

And tonight we hear Pastor Parsely, a person who McBush has called a great leader a moral compass, a spiritual guide, says that United States was founded to destroy Islam.

From birth he was raised to believe that kiling non-christians is the best thing for America, and this is what his political agenda is about. He is open about his hatred of America's belief in religious freedom, which can be seen in his disgust of American Muslims. His main political agenda (as it applies to John McCain) is to destroy Islam. Hate is the main idea in this mans life, not only for a religion, but for history as well. It is in his sermons where he neglects all the murders that the Christians have committed, and insights his followers to destroy other religions, which perpetuates his murderous ideas.

Parsley supported John Roberts' nomination for the Supreme Court of the United States. He has personally endorsed the presidential campaign of Republican nominee John McCain, who has called Parsley a "spiritual guide."[4] Parsley is also a regional director for the Christian Zionist group Christians United for Israel, founded by fellow televangelist John Hagee.[5]

And tonight we hear Pastor Parsely, a person who McBush has called a great leader a moral compass, a spiritual guide, says that United States was founded to destroy Islam. He further stated that Islam is an antichrist religion that plans to conquer the world. Not Islamic extremist but all Muslims. How does McBush now negotiate with Saudia Arabia over the price of oil? Pastor Rod Parsley is a pastor of a 12000 member church. Mainstream evangelical conservative christian???

Wikipedia on Rod Parsley, McCains spiritual guide:



and

My Lord...where are you FROM that is less forgiving than here?!? I am originally from Lancaster and have lived quite a few other places and, much as I love Lancaster, forgiving would not be a word I would use in my top ten list of personality traits found here.

I have heard the "left behind" series ridiculed by so many Christians here I would be surprised if our bookstores here sold any of those books.

It represents a Zionist dispensational theology that I don't deny is strong in evangelical circles in the nation but not in lancaster.

A simple test if you really want to know what churches here are teaching. Call some pastors and ask them; Do you teach a premillennial dispensationalist theology? If they don't know what it is then trust me, they don't teach it.

.

A simple test if you really want to know what churches here are teaching. Call some pastors and ask them; Do you teach a premillennial dispensationalist theology? If they don't know what it is then trust me, they don't teach it. Lancaster is full of Christians from basically 2 groups, Reformed Calvinist types and Anabaptist Mennonite types, both of these groups adamantly reject this kind of teaching.

ctravel, is the passage you quote beginning "From birth..." on the Wikipedia page you link to? I can't find it. I wanted to see it in context, not that I disagree with you, but because it is so poorly written. I wanted to read it in context and see any citations with it, but I can't find it.

Parsley's remarks pertaining to Islam has caused controversy. In criticizing Islam, Parsley stated that he "do[es] not believe that our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed." (Silent No More, as cited in Holy Toledo by Frances Fitzgerald in the New Yorker, July 31 2006) In repudiating Parsley's comments and rejecting his endorsement, presidential hopeful John McCain stated, "I believe there is no place for that kind of dialogue in America, and I believe that even though he endorsed me, and I didn't endorse him, the fact is that I repudiate such talk, and I reject his endorsement."[6]

You can not say that they are fringe when Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and others have all said these ludicrous things. These are not fringe they are the forfront leaders of the modern conservative evangelical movement. Far from fringe they are mainstream. Thats why in a private meeting Bush jr referred to them a bunch of crazy people. And McBush is a sane moment called them purveyors of hate and division.

"Those people" "These types" "All evangelicals"



Maybe I'm just reading too much into the words being used but what tends to give ALL Christians a bad name is the fact that everyone gets lumped together in one group or even worse- ALL Christians or Evangelicals get a bad name due to the few bad apples (Robertson, Falwell, Hagee).



I personally am born-again but I also believe in some ways that I am a hypocrite. A hypocrite is someone who claims to be one thing and then does something else. But as I said- I'm born-again, not perect

John McCain’s tune toward evangelical pastor Rod Parsley has changed in three months’ time.

During the thank you section of a speech in Cincinnati, Ohio on Feb. 26 -- the same Cincinnati event at which a conservative radio host referenced Obama’s middle name, “Hussein,” three times -- McCain had words of praise for Parsley.

“I'm very honored today to have one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide, Pastor Rod Parsley, who is here,” McCain said. The Arizona senator then walked over and shook Parsley’s hand. “Thank you for your leadership and your guidance. I am very grateful you are here, sir.”




He continued, “And I want to assure you, he should be talking, not me. But I want to say thank you for being here. I want to thank you, Rod, for your kind introduction.”




But yesterday, per NBC/NJ’s Carrie Dann, McCan told the AP, “I believe there is no place for that kind of dialogue in America. I believe that even thought he [Parsley] endorsed me, and I didn’t endorse him, the fact is that I repudiate such talk, and I reject his endorsement.”

Yes, dragon, it really has become mainstream.

Now, I know you are a religious person, dragon, and know others on here are religious as well, and I don't want to offend, but, I just gotta say this. These evangelicals, their popularity, their looniness, and their increasing political ties really make all religion seem incredibly creepy to us non-believers. (well, except the Quakers and the Unitarians, for some reason they aren't as creepy to me)

I know some of you get some valuable stuff out of all this, but really, it seems like the whole system needs some kind of better monitoring. I mean I know its hard, even the Catholics have had a tough time keeping their leadership in check, but really, isn't there some sort of rating system? Maybe like an on-line forum? A certificate of achievement? Can't the Bible College or the Theological Seminary send out some undercover parishoners who can then write up some critical reports?

Now, I know that sounds goofy and maybe a bit insulting, but the way things have unfolded recently, it seems like people are going behind these closed doors on Sundays, believing anything they hear the preacher say for years at a time, until finally someone in the press calls them out on it because of a connection to someone important...well, what if nobody important ever goes to your church?

At the very least a check list: this church likes gays, this one thinks they are going to burn in heck, this one loves flowers, that one thinks God sent Hitler down to move the Jews, this one cares about the environment, that one spends 1 thousand each winter on heating the crib in the nativity scene, this one loves the poor, that one loves the rich, etc.

All a matter of interpretation.

I really fail to see the numbers of these Zionist running around lancaster that Gil is so afraid of. The link to the article from MCC I think represents most of what the Christians I know in lancaster believe. I have heard the "left behind" series ridiculed by so many Christians here I would be surprised if our bookstores here sold any of those books. It represents a Zionist dispensational theology that I don't deny is strong in evangelical circles in the nation but not in lancaster.

A simple test if you really want to know what churches here are teaching. Call some pastors and ask them; Do you teach a premillennial dispensationalist theology? If they don't know what it is then trust me, they don't teach it. Lancaster is full of Christians from basically 2 groups, Reformed Calvinist types and Anabaptist Mennonite types, both of these groups adamantly reject this kind of teaching.

"Those people" "These types" "All evangelicals"



Maybe I'm just reading too much into the words being used but what tends to give ALL Christians a bad name is the fact that everyone gets lumped together in one group or even worse- ALL Christians or Evangelicals get a bad name due to the few bad apples (Robertson, Falwell, Hagee).



I personally am born-again but I also believe in some ways that I am a hypocrite. A hypocrite is someone who claims to be one thing and then does something else. But as I said- I'm born-again, not perect

Actually, I wanted to commend you on stating what so few are able to. All of us have flaws, but it's very hard to admit to them. Your post shows a very strong sense of self-perception and is admirable.

Why is all this bigotry and judging associated with religion? This is the part I fail to understand. If there was no bible, no religion, would we be better off? The Bible preaches love and acceptance, why have we drifted so far from it. The biggest question I have is why people choose to use it for their own purpose to promote their own agenda???

Not all of us are flawed! I happen to know I am perfect! My wife tells me so everyday.

Now we hear the pseudo republican Leiberman is going to attend the Christians for Israel conference sponsored by Hagee. Leiberman has no trouble supporting a foul mouth bigot. He should feel right at home in the repugnican party.