Race and ‘reservations’

May 12th, 2008 9:34 pm · 34 comments

Tucker Carlson and Christine Todd Whitman are on “The Verdict” right now wondering why people in West Virginia and Kentucky are going to vote for Hillary instead of Obama.

Gee - maybe because Obama is black?

There are of course reasons why people wouldn’t vote for Obama, legitimate reasons. But when, in a state (West Virginia) that’s 95 percent white, which has far fewer college grads than virtually any other state in the country, Hillary outpolls Obama by some 30 percent - I’m sorry, but there’s something more to that.

And Josh Marshall finds it, in a WaPo/ABC News poll:

While overall discomfort with an African-American president is much lower, it rises among less-educated whites - the same group that’s been a challenge for Obama in the Democratic primaries. Among whites who haven’t gone through college, 17 percent say they’d be at least somewhat uncomfortable with a black president; that compares with just 4 percent of white college graduates. Clinton may face a similar problem, however; less-educated whites also are more apt to be uncomfortable with a woman president (21 percent, vs. 7 percent of white college graduates).

And so now, in this great election of the common man, I’m supposed to have some empathy for this.

I have zero empathy for this.

Because I’m sorry, if you “have reservations” about a black president, that’s racism. You might have reservations about this particular potential black president; you might have problems with individual candidates. But we’re all trying to dance around the fact that in these states, those “reservations” are specifically tied to race. We’re trying to pretend this is legitimate. Indeed - so far in the campaign, we’ve come pretty close to declaring it “elitist” to suggest that there’s anything wrong with this at all. And Hillary is implicitly suggesting that this “discomfort” on the basis of race is all right.

It isn’t. And I see this election as forcing the Democratic Party - and maybe the country - to finally come to terms with this.

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  34 comments  Tags: Race · Racism · Obama · Uncategorized

There are currently 34 comments on this blog post
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2fat2ride
5/12/08
11:09 PM
Nonsense, West Virginia Democrats couldn't possibly be motivated by race. I am sure they are just following the traditional core values of their honorable and well-spoken Senator Robert Byrd.

Uh-oh, wait a second

My bad. You were right..

And to think, he is third in line...

Pericles
5/13/08
10:06 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ May 12 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]388412[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


You're probably right Gil. But on the other hand, 92% of blacks support Obama. Isn't that about race too?



gsmart
5/13/08
10:29 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ May 13 2008, 10:06 AM) [snapback]388536[/snapback]


You're probably right Gil. But on the other hand, 92% of blacks support Obama. Isn't that about race too?







Do you think?



And how many women are voting for Hillary on that basis. Identity politics, sure; but there's a difference between saying I'm voting for XY because of his or her race or gender, and saying I'm uncomfortable voting for XY or would never vote for XY due to his or her race or gender.

Lancaster
5/13/08
10:31 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ May 12 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]388412[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.




Gil, just curious...do you have reservations about writing for a news company who is sorely lacking in the diversity department?

Pericles
5/13/08
10:51 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ May 13 2008, 10:29 AM) [snapback]388544[/snapback]


Do you think?

And how many women are voting for Hillary on that basis. Identity politics, sure; but there's a difference between saying I'm voting for XY because of his or her race or gender, and saying I'm uncomfortable voting for XY or would never vote for XY due to his or her race or gender.



I think the outcomes are the same regardless of the motivation.
johnq
5/13/08
10:57 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ May 13 2008, 10:29 AM) [snapback]388544[/snapback]




Do you think?



And how many women are voting for Hillary on that basis. Identity politics, sure; but there's a difference between saying I'm voting for XY because of his or her race or gender, and saying I'm uncomfortable voting for XY or would never vote for XY due to his or her race or gender.

I don't agree with that at all. Looking at race/gender first, whether in a positive or negative light is the same. The voter is voting for someone for a reason other than their qualifications, putting race/gender first.
gsmart
5/13/08
10:59 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ May 13 2008, 10:51 AM) [snapback]388554[/snapback]


I think the outcomes are the same regardless of the motivation.




I disagree. One thing to support your own, another to try and keep the other down.

Like maybe with this T-shirt from down Georgia way:



[attachmentid=1946]
BeingReal
5/13/08
11:13 AM
Just remember, Gil, to quote the preschoolers on the program "Curious George is a monkey and sometimes he can do things we can't do." Not the best character to use to put someone down in my book....Curious George uses creativity, logic, observation and ingenuity to solve problems. wink.gif
cyberscribbler
5/13/08
11:22 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ May 13 2008, 10:59 AM) [snapback]388560[/snapback]
One thing to support your own, another to try and keep the other down.

"Border patrol eat free"
I dunno sounds kind of clingy, to me.

Bigmaclender2
5/13/08
11:25 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ May 13 2008, 10:29 AM) [snapback]388544[/snapback]




Do you think?



And how many women are voting for Hillary on that basis. Identity politics, sure; but there's a difference between saying I'm voting for XY because of his or her race or gender, and saying I'm uncomfortable voting for XY or would never vote for XY due to his or her race or gender.





Look at the numbers that you just posted with the "uneducated" - there are more that are against Hillary than Obama. This post is bogus. Come on, Gil.

littledutchboy
5/13/08
12:04 PM
Has anyone seen any polls of blacks, as to why they will be voting for Boomer? I haven’t, maybe the reasons would be…ah…unattractive? Flat out racists? Of course we know only whites are racists. blink.gif huh.gif ohmy.gif sad.gif

4coffee
5/13/08
12:20 PM
Gee, and to think I vote according to their track record, where they stand on the issues, etc.. Guess I've been doing this wrong over the years?



IMO if someone is voting based on sex or race, that's just wrong.



cyberscribbler
5/13/08
12:42 PM
I wish just one of these race/gender/political partisan threads would get past the initial dialogue of "is soandso racist/sexist/partisan because they support _____(fill in the blank)

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe
Blacks identify with Obama because they agree with his stance on certain issues
OR
Women identify with Hillary because they agree with her stance on certain issues
OR
Dare I say, white upperclass males identify with McCain because they share his stance on certain issues?

Riddle me this, was race relations an issue for George Bush before Katrina? No, it took a major hurricane striking a major city before he even went to address the NAACP. That's right 5 years into his presidency.

To the LDBs of this board, how come you never backed Jessie Jackson or Al Sharlaton for president? Was it because you don't agree with their stance on enough issues. Does that make you a racist, no.

Hopefully we'll get past the finger pointing and name calling long enough to have a serious dialogue on race. In the meantime here's an opener

johnq
5/13/08
2:25 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ May 13 2008, 12:42 PM) [snapback]388608[/snapback]
I wish just one of these race/gender/political partisan threads would get past the initial dialogue of "is soandso racist/sexist/partisan because they support _____(fill in the blank)

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe
Blacks identify with Obama because they agree with his stance on certain issues
OR
Women identify with Hillary because they agree with her stance on certain issues
OR
Dare I say, white upperclass males identify with McCain because they share his stance on certain issues?

Riddle me this, was race relations an issue for George Bush before Katrina? No, it took a major hurricane striking a major city before he even went to address the NAACP. That's right 5 years into his presidency.

To the LDBs of this board, how come you never backed Jessie Jackson or Al Sharlaton for president? Was it because you don't agree with their stance on enough issues. Does that make you a racist, no.

Hopefully we'll get past the finger pointing and name calling long enough to have a serious dialogue on race. In the meantime here's an opener

You certainly make a good point. One that is hard to argue. I don't believe that is the issue. I believe the issue is the people who vote race/gender as their primary issue. But, frankly, single issue voting, regardless of the issue, can be problematic.
cyberscribbler
5/13/08
2:37 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 13 2008, 02:25 PM) [snapback]388649[/snapback]
But, frankly, single issue voting, regardless of the issue, can be problematic.

So Hillary is making the fact that she's a woman and deserves to be president based on this single fact alone enough
Obama is claiming my father was African, so that alone is singularly enough of a reason to vote for me.
McCain is claiming I'm now opposed to abortion, so this issue alone uniquely qualifies me to become president.
I'm not buying it.

I was quite clear, and you side-stepped my point, that it's a whole host of issues.

johnq
5/13/08
3:03 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ May 13 2008, 02:37 PM) [snapback]388654[/snapback]

So Hillary is making the fact that she's a woman and deserves to be president based on this single fact alone enough
Obama is claiming my father was African, so that alone is singularly enough of a reason to vote for me.
McCain is claiming I'm now opposed to abortion, so this issue alone uniquely qualifies me to become president.
I'm not buying it.

I was quite clear, and you side-stepped my point, that it's a whole host of issues.

I didn't side step your point. I agree with you.
grieker
5/13/08
3:03 PM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ May 12 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]388412[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


Marietta tavern owner Mike Norman says the T-shirts he's peddling, featuring cartoon chimp Curious George peeling a banana, with "Obama in '08" scrolled underneath, are "cute." But to a coalition of critics, the shirts are an insulting exploitation of racial stereotypes from generations past.

"It's time to put an end to this," said Rich Pellegrino, a Mableton resident and director of the Cobb-Cherokee Immigrant Alliance. It was among the organizations gathering outside of Mulligan's Bar and Grill Tuesday afternoon to protest the "racist and highly offensive" shirts.



But it's okay to compare Bush to a monkey? What gives here?

Bigmaclender2
5/13/08
3:08 PM
QUOTE(grieker @ May 13 2008, 03:03 PM) [snapback]388679[/snapback]


Marietta tavern owner Mike Norman says the T-shirts he's peddling, featuring cartoon chimp Curious George peeling a banana, with "Obama in '08" scrolled underneath, are "cute." But to a coalition of critics, the shirts are an insulting exploitation of racial stereotypes from generations past.

"It's time to put an end to this," said Rich Pellegrino, a Mableton resident and director of the Cobb-Cherokee Immigrant Alliance. It was among the organizations gathering outside of Mulligan's Bar and Grill Tuesday afternoon to protest the "racist and highly offensive" shirts.



But it's okay to compare Bush to a monkey? What gives here?





Bush is white-that's not racist (that's what I'm told, anyways) LMAO

You mention a Pellegrino-that's not the "green grocer's brother" is it?

grieker
5/13/08
3:15 PM
QUOTE(Bigmaclender2 @ May 13 2008, 03:08 PM) [snapback]388680[/snapback]




Bush is white-that's not racist (that's what I'm told, anyways) LMAO

You mention a Pellegrino-that's not the "green grocer's brother" is it?



MIssed my point, don't you think it's unfair to the monkeys being compared with Bush? ohmy.gif

I don't believe this is the same Pellegrino.

cyberscribbler
5/13/08
3:19 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 13 2008, 03:03 PM) [snapback]388678[/snapback]
I didn't side step your point. I agree with you.
Sorry, my mistake, if you did.


Watch the convo devolve into "oh yea, but you guys said this about our guy."

pointless. outta here.
johnq
5/13/08
3:38 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ May 13 2008, 03:19 PM) [snapback]388689[/snapback]
Sorry, my mistake, if you did.


Watch the convo devolve into "oh yea, but you guys said this about our guy."

pointless. outta here.
Always does. And they'll still bring Bush into it.
ArtVandolay
5/13/08
3:42 PM
QUOTE(grieker @ May 13 2008, 03:15 PM) [snapback]388686[/snapback]


MIssed my point, don't you think it's unfair to the monkeys being compared with Bush? ohmy.gif

I don't believe this is the same Pellegrino.







It's funny to me that the thinking is that if two people are named Pellegino, they must be related. Aren't all Eye-talians related?

(It's OK, don't take it personally BMac)









Bigmaclender2
5/13/08
3:57 PM
QUOTE(ArtVandolay @ May 13 2008, 03:42 PM) [snapback]388703[/snapback]






It's funny to me that the thinking is that if two people are named Pellegino, they must be related. Aren't all Eye-talians related?

(It's OK, don't take it personally BMac)




It's all good. It just gave me a flashback of growing up in Philly with the "Green Grocer". I knew there was no relation......lol

You remember him?

ArtVandolay
5/13/08
4:09 PM
QUOTE(Bigmaclender2 @ May 13 2008, 03:57 PM) [snapback]388709[/snapback]




It's all good. It just gave me a flashback of growing up in Philly with the "Green Grocer". I knew there was no relation......lol

You remember him?





Yep, I guess he is retired or has passed away?

Bigby_M
5/13/08
5:47 PM
QUOTE(grieker @ May 13 2008, 03:03 PM) [snapback]388679[/snapback]




But it's okay to compare Bush to a monkey? What gives here?



You are right. That is so unfair to monkeys everywhere. laugh.gif

harv1
5/13/08
6:12 PM
For the first time in our history, we have two people who are serious candidates for president that has never happened before. I'd prefer to think we've come pretty far rather than rehash old crap. It will be a strange day in our country if someone didn't or did vote for someone based upon their own personal prejudices and/or preferences.

Ike became prez based solely on his war hero status. Same with Ullyses S. Grant. Buchanan had Breckenridge from the south as his VP to woo the southern vote. And so on and so forth. I think that FDR ran through a couple of VPs for various political reasons as well.

My problem is that I am not very enthused about ANY of the three candidates... and it's based on their stance on issues, the mess that has been created that I don't think that ANY of them are up to the challenge to fix. Bill Richardson and Dennis Kucinich were two of my favorites. Richardson especially. The man had experience in so many national and international arenas. IF one of these folks choose him as a running mate, then I know who I will vote for. Other than that, I'm not very passionate about any of them.



As for Bush: at least he was finally smart enough to get rid of the uni-brow.



Bigmaclender2
5/13/08
6:27 PM
QUOTE(ArtVandolay @ May 13 2008, 04:09 PM) [snapback]388716[/snapback]




Yep, I guess he is retired or has passed away?





He passed away

Lancaster
5/13/08
9:55 PM
QUOTE(Lancaster @ May 13 2008, 10:31 AM) [snapback]388547[/snapback]




Gil, just curious...do you have 'reservations' about writing for a news company who is sorely lacking in the diversity department?





Whattya say Gil? How are things looking down there in the news room? Editorial staff? Comfy?

citydweller
5/13/08
10:31 PM
Enough of this.

Vote for my cat, Mike.

He's compassionate when appropriate, aggressive when necessary and, most importantly, he purrs.

What more could you want? VOTE MIKE.

Early and often
BeingReal
5/13/08
10:45 PM
City, for the write-in votes, do we have to spell it like that exactly?

rolleyes.gif wink.gif laugh.gif

citydweller
5/13/08
11:03 PM
Check the County primary results. I just put in "My Cat". He made it through wink.gif
BeingReal
5/13/08
11:04 PM
QUOTE(citydweller @ May 13 2008, 11:03 PM) [snapback]388794[/snapback]
Check the County primary results. I just put in "My Cat". He made it through wink.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif lol_lmao.gif Ya kill me!

Lancaster
5/14/08
9:32 PM
QUOTE(Lancaster @ May 13 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]388783[/snapback]




Whattya say Gil? How are things looking down there in the news room? Editorial staff? Comfy?





Gil? lol_whistle.gif Come on now - you are always preaching to us about your morality - please enlighten us as to why LNP has refused to hire minorities on their news or editorial staffs for all of these years. Thanks





Lancaster
5/17/08
8:23 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster @ May 14 2008, 09:32 PM) [snapback]389257[/snapback]




Gil? lol_whistle.gif Come on now - you are always preaching to us about your morality - please enlighten us as to why LNP has refused to hire minorities on their news or editorial staffs for all of these years. Thanks







sad.gif

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