Combat yes, nude women no
April 28th, 2008 9:04 am · 98 comments
Sweet. U.S. Rep. Joe Pitts, ever worried about the moral fiber of our nation, has signed on as a sponsor to House Resolution 5821 - the “Military Honor and Decency Act,” probably more aptly called “The Puritan Act.” Because, see, our fine folks in uniform, it’s OK that they go kill and die, maybe get maimed for life by an IED, something along those lines.
But nude women? Beyond the pale.
Because, see, HR 5821 thinks that the existing law banning the sale of hardcore porn on military bases isn’t tough enough. Too many loopholes - like, it permits Playboy to be sold.
And so the chief sponsor of the Puritan Act tells Focus on the Family’s CitizenLink that looking at nude women ““erodes the family as a primary building block of society …and it denigrates the moral standing of our troops both here and abroad.”
And the proposed law gets real technical:
The term `nudity’ means … any part of the female breast below a horizontal line across the top of the areola with less than an opaque covering but does not include the exposure of the cleavage of the female breast exhibited by a dress, blouse, bathing suit, or other appare.
Got it? Less than this is porn; above the top of the areola… and maybe Joe Pitts will permit it.
I have an idea: Instead of permitting the likes of Joe Pitts to sit back here in America and decide what’s upstanding and what’s not while our troops are being shot at, why not let the troops themselves vote on this? And if they vote it down, good for them.
But if they want to be permitted to buy a copy of Playboy, given that they’re putting their damned lives on the line every day for this country, I don’t see where Joe Pitts has any standing at all - none at all - to tell them what is and isn’t moral.
h/t JP
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Tags: Joe Pitts · Moralism
There are currently 98 comments on this blog postView Topic | Comment on this blogPericles
4/28/08
3:19 PM | QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Apr 28 2008, 09:05 AM) [snapback]382948[/snapback]
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
I agree with you on this Gil.
If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to read Playboy or Penthouse, vote and have a beer.
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Lysol54
4/28/08
3:24 PM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 28 2008, 03:19 PM) [snapback]383092[/snapback]
I agree with you on this Gil.
If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to read Playboy or Penthouse, vote and have a beer.
And i second that as well. This type of Nanny State politics really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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grieker
4/28/08
3:30 PM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 28 2008, 03:24 PM) [snapback]383096[/snapback]
And i second that as well. This type of Nanny State politics really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Drink as well?
When I entered the Air Force a few decades ago, I was able to die fighting for my country; however, I could not drink. Worse than that, I was not able to vote on issues that may have determined my life expectency.
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Pericles
4/28/08
3:50 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 28 2008, 03:30 PM) [snapback]383100[/snapback]
Drink as well?
When I entered the Air Force a few decades ago, I was able to die fighting for my country; however, I could not drink. Worse than that, I was not able to vote on issues that may have determined my life expectency.
I was a 17-year old Marine Corps PFC at my first duty station and not old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes in the PX, or buy a beer at the club. Fortunately Tijuana was within traveling distance on weekends. Nothing was illegal there. 
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Lysol54
4/28/08
3:53 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 28 2008, 03:30 PM) [snapback]383100[/snapback]
Drink as well?
When I entered the Air Force a few decades ago, I was able to die fighting for my country; however, I could not drink. Worse than that, I was not able to vote on issues that may have determined my life expectency.
Yeah i think the drinking age should be lowered to 18. Its our treatment of alchohol as forbidden that leads to many of the problems we see now. If you teach your kids its ok to drink in moderation, etc, like much of Europe does i don't think you'd see nearly the problems with binge drinking etc. And i think it was people like you that were the reason the voting age was dropped to 18.
QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 28 2008, 03:50 PM) [snapback]383113[/snapback] I was a 17-year old Marine Corps PFC at my first duty station and not old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes in the PX, or buy a beer at the club. Fortunately Tijuana was within traveling distance on weekends. Nothing was illegal there.
Now i have heard that soliders in war zones are allowed to have beer. I'm not sure if thats the truth or not but have heard it from a few people who were in the service. |
Pericles
4/28/08
3:57 PM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 28 2008, 03:53 PM) [snapback]383114[/snapback]
Now i have heard that soliders in war zones are allowed to have beer. I'm not sure if thats the truth or not but have heard it from a few people who were in the service.
When you're overseas usually the stateside rules don't apply, especially off base.
Otherwise, state law usually applies, but I believe that it's at the discretion of the local base commander.
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Lysol54
4/28/08
4:04 PM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 28 2008, 03:57 PM) [snapback]383117[/snapback]
When you're overseas usually the stateside rules don't apply, especially off base.
Otherwise, state law usually applies, but I believe that it's at the discretion of the local base commander.
I was talking about on base . |
Wonder
4/28/08
4:11 PM | This is what the "good ol boys" think so far. What do women think about these proposals? Generally, pairing sex and violence [plus alcohol] causes more problems than it helps ease [in terms of stress]. |
dragonrider
4/28/08
4:13 PM | As long as you didn't buy your beer in a grocery store I guess its ok to drink at 18
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dee
4/28/08
4:13 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 28 2008, 03:30 PM) [snapback]383100[/snapback]
When I entered the Air Force a few decades ago, I was able to die fighting for my country; however, I could not drink. Worse than that, I was not able to vote on issues that may have determined my life expectency.
I would hope most people would see the validity of that point. All military personnel should be allowed to vote.
However, on the other hand, high school dances at my school would have been way different if the seniors could have bought hooch. 
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grieker
4/28/08
4:14 PM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 28 2008, 03:57 PM) [snapback]383117[/snapback]
When you're overseas usually the stateside rules don't apply, especially off base.
Otherwise, state law usually applies, but I believe that it's at the discretion of the local base commander.
That is now correct, the installation falls under federal authority and most allow consumptsion on the installation.
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dragonrider
4/28/08
4:16 PM | Most foreign cities near military bases dislike soldiers in town , drinking, and then raping and fighting with the locals. US military has a history of over drinking creating problems with the locals. |
Lysol54
4/28/08
4:20 PM | QUOTE(Wonder @ Apr 28 2008, 04:11 PM) [snapback]383125[/snapback] This is what the "good ol boys" think so far. What do women think about these proposals? Generally, pairing sex and violence [plus alcohol] causes more problems than it helps ease [in terms of stress].
I would agree with that point and when you have women serving in front line positions it makes things even worse. Thats why i have a problem with women in combat positions in the military. Just too much can go wrong, not blaming one sex or another, because from my friends experiances they are both equally to blame. But that being said, women are also looking at porn mags. |
Milton
4/28/08
4:23 PM | Gil, before you take things too far, you should remember that Pitts is a Vietnam Vet. Perhaps that doesn't mean anything to you, but at lease he has been in the same seat as today's service men and women. |
Bigby_M
4/28/08
4:32 PM | I wonder if Pitts will outlaw servicemen from going to all those brothels that seem to always be around military installations.
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dragonrider
4/28/08
4:43 PM | I agree Lysol the problem isn't men in service overdrinking and porn its women who object public display of porn pictures. So lets make sure the women folk return to their homes and kitchens so men can read all the porn they want anywhere they want. |
Lysol54
4/28/08
4:46 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 28 2008, 04:43 PM) [snapback]383151[/snapback] I agree Lysol the problem isn't men in service overdrinking and porn its women who object public display of porn pictures. So lets make sure the women folk return to their homes and kitchens so men can read all the porn they want anywhere they want.
I didn't mean it was women who had a problem with porn, i ment having women in those positions adds another layer of possible problems for both the men and women. Men are sexual, we make off color comments, crude jokes etc. And i'm sure in a war zone thats even worse than just u and your buddies at the bar. I'm not saying women shouldn't be allowed to serve, just not in combat positions.
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dragonrider
4/28/08
5:37 PM | I don't think that any man who can't control his need for porn should be trusted with protecting the US |
Beth
4/28/08
5:57 PM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 28 2008, 04:20 PM) [snapback]383138[/snapback]
I would agree with that point and when you have women serving in front line positions it makes things even worse. Thats why i have a problem with women in combat positions in the military. Just too much can go wrong, not blaming one sex or another, because from my friends experiances they are both equally to blame. But that being said, women are also looking at porn mags.
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 28 2008, 04:46 PM) [snapback]383154[/snapback]
I didn't mean it was women who had a problem with porn, i ment having women in those positions adds another layer of possible problems for both the men and women. Men are sexual, we make off color comments, crude jokes etc. And i'm sure in a war zone thats even worse than just u and your buddies at the bar. I'm not saying women shouldn't be allowed to serve, just not in combat positions.
So what I'm reading here, is that you like woman in any position, but combat?  |
Pericles
4/29/08
7:55 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 28 2008, 04:16 PM) [snapback]383135[/snapback] Most foreign cities near military bases dislike soldiers in town , drinking, and then raping and fighting with the locals. US military has a history of over drinking creating problems with the locals.
That's an outrageous statement. Tell us what foreign cities you are referring to.
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cyberscribbler
4/29/08
7:56 AM | QUOTE(Milton @ Apr 28 2008, 04:23 PM) [snapback]383142[/snapback] Gil, before you take things too far, you should remember that Pitts is a Vietnam Vet.
the operative word being "a"
He's not chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, therefore his is just one opinion amongst many.
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Pericles
4/29/08
8:03 AM | QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 28 2008, 04:32 PM) [snapback]383145[/snapback] I wonder if Pitts will outlaw servicemen from going to all those brothels that seem to always be around military installations.
What military installation are you referring to? Can you name even one that has a brothel nearby?
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 28 2008, 05:37 PM) [snapback]383175[/snapback] I don't think that any man who can't control his need for porn should be trusted with protecting the US
So if a man decides to look at Penthouse after he's been deployed for 15 months, working 20-hour days, shot at, involved in firefights, then according to you he has no business being in the military?
You're obviously female, liberal, and have a problem with the people who defend you.
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grieker
4/29/08
8:25 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 08:03 AM) [snapback]383293[/snapback]
What military installation are you referring to? Can you name even one that has a brothel nearby?
I don't know if Pericles can but I sure can.
Vogelway
Kindsbach
Ramstein
Bitburg
Machenbach
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dragonrider
4/29/08
8:27 AM | So your saying that a gay man must never say anything even hinting at his sexuality but a heterosexual man is so weak he must be allowed to purchase view and pinup his pornand women service persons must not be allowed be in combat so men can continue offensive behavior. I guess I would rather have a man who is strong enough to never even hint at his sexuality defend me than a man who is so weak to his urges he can not control his need for porn.
I am so tired of being told how weak heterosexual men are that they must be defended in their offensive behavior. I mean their marriages are so weak they must be defended from gays marrying. Their need for porn is so great that that must be defended. Boys must be defended in school from mention of gay sex or birth control as they might either become gay or go out and have sex with a girl.
Name a city with brothels nearby to service GI's, Columbus GA. |
Pericles
4/29/08
8:31 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 08:25 AM) [snapback]383303[/snapback]
I don't know if Pericles can but I sure can.
Vogelway
Kindsbach
Ramstein
Bitburg
Machenbach
How about all the other European cities without bases that have brothels?
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 08:27 AM) [snapback]383305[/snapback]
Name a city with brothels nearby to service GI's, Columbus GA.
Really? What's the name of the brothel?
I understand there's a massage parlor in Lancaster, but no military base. What gives?
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Bigby_M
4/29/08
8:31 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 08:03 AM) [snapback]383293[/snapback]
What military installation are you referring to? Can you name even one that has a brothel nearby?
Uhhhh the whole town of Tijuana ?
Are you saying that there are no brothels near U.S. military installations in foreign countries?
Shirley you jest. 
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Pericles
4/29/08
8:35 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 08:27 AM) [snapback]383305[/snapback] So your saying that a gay man must never say anything even hinting at his sexuality but a heterosexual man is so weak he must be allowed to purchase view and pinup his pornand women service persons must not be allowed be in combat so men can continue offensive behavior. I guess I would rather have a man who is strong enough to never even hint at his sexuality defend me than a man who is so weak to his urges he can not control his need for porn.
What does combat have to do with this issue? You don't have a clue and it's obvious.
Women are barred from combat arms, not combat zones. Learn the difference.
QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 29 2008, 08:31 AM) [snapback]383307[/snapback] Uhhhh the whole town of Tijuana ? Are you saying that there are no brothels near U.S. military installations in foreign countries? Shirley you jest.
What about Tijuana? It exists because of a nearby military base? Which one in particular? Have you been to Tijuana? Seems to me that are more college students adn regular tourists than military people.
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dragonrider
4/29/08
8:51 AM | I am not the one who brought up the issue of women and combat and correlating it to this discussion that was Lysol , I only answered that issue raised by Lysol that under the stress of combat heterosexual men are so weak that they must be allowed to turn to porn for comfort and women should be kept from combat so heterosexual men can pursue their porn without concern for its impact on women. Not me who raised the combat issue talk to lysol
I am sure that the citizens of Japan are tired of hearing about their underage girls being raped by heterosexual men who can not control their need for sexual gratification. The citizems of the Phillipines are equally tired of the sex trade and raping of their your women by US servicemen.
As far as defending me Name one country that directly attacked or even indirectly attacked US that I have been defended against in the last 52 years of my life.
Viet Nam, no
Korea, no
Panama, no
Iraq no
Why am I spending money to station troops in Europe who certainly can defend itself, Or Japan which can certainly defend itself.
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cyberscribbler
4/29/08
8:52 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 08:35 AM) [snapback]383309[/snapback]
Have you been to Tijuana? What happens in TJ, stays in TJ |
Lysol54
4/29/08
8:54 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 07:55 AM) [snapback]383288[/snapback]
That's an outrageous statement. Tell us what foreign cities you are referring to.
Okinawa Japan, seems to have a huge problem with Marines and this type of behavior. How many times over the past 10 years have they arrested a Marine for raping a local women or girl?
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frankomav47
4/29/08
8:56 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 08:27 AM) [snapback]383305[/snapback] So your saying that a gay man must never say anything even hinting at his sexuality but a heterosexual man is so weak he must be allowed to purchase view and pinup his pornand women service persons must not be allowed be in combat so men can continue offensive behavior. I guess I would rather have a man who is strong enough to never even hint at his sexuality defend me than a man who is so weak to his urges he can not control his need for porn.
I am so tired of being told how weak heterosexual men are that they must be defended in their offensive behavior. I mean their marriages are so weak they must be defended from gays marrying. Their need for porn is so great that that must be defended. Boys must be defended in school from mention of gay sex or birth control as they might either become gay or go out and have sex with a girl.
Name a city with brothels nearby to service GI's, Columbus GA.
Up until now, I've been keeping my mouth shut, but I have a question and I'm going to direct it to Dragonrider.
What is so offensive about a man wanting to look at a naked female body?
It's the natural state of things. At least it has been as long as I've been alive.
I personally don't prefer complete nudity. I'd rather see some clothing covering crucial parts, but I would like you to answer that question.
And please explain why it makes a man weak to want to do so, when we are supposed to be attracted to the opposite sex to begin with ?
If it wasn't meant to be that way, please explain why you feel as you do. Then tell us how in hell we were supposed to keep our population up ?
Just a thought !  |
grieker
4/29/08
8:56 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 08:27 AM) [snapback]383305[/snapback]
Name a city with brothels nearby to service GI's, Columbus GA.
Ahh yes, good ole Ft Benning. While brothel's are illegal in most states, including Georgia, you can get serviced at Heavenly Hands in Columbus or give Water Fingers a call.
There are more but I don't want to "out" them.
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Lysol54
4/29/08
8:57 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 08:31 AM) [snapback]383306[/snapback]
How about all the other European cities without bases that have brothels?
Rammstien has a base near by? What exactly is your point Pericles? You make it seem like there aren't brothals near bases? My grandfather said there were plenty while he was in the service during WWII
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grieker
4/29/08
9:00 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 07:55 AM) [snapback]383288[/snapback]
That's an outrageous statement. Tell us what foreign cities you are referring to.
The ENTIRE city of Frankfurt was off limits to the Army for a few YEARS. I will say I have never found a city that hated the installations.
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Pericles
4/29/08
9:03 AM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 29 2008, 08:54 AM) [snapback]383323[/snapback]
Okinawa Japan, seems to have a huge problem with Marines and this type of behavior. How many times over the past 10 years have they arrested a Marine for raping a local women or girl?
Twice in 25 years.
How about at any local university? Or any US city?
The fact is that the military has less crime than the general population.
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grieker
4/29/08
9:03 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 07:55 AM) [snapback]383288[/snapback]
That's an outrageous statement. Tell us what foreign cities you are referring to.
Here a stateside example.
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
HEADQUARTERS, JOINT READINESS TRAINING CENTER AND FORT POLK
6661 WARRIOR TRAIL , BUILDING 360
FORT POLK , LOUISIANA 71459-5339
REPLY TO
ATTENTION OF:
IMSW-POL-ES 5 March 2007
MEMORANDUM FOR SEE DISTRIBUTION
SUBJECT: Off Limits Establishments
1. Under the provisions of AR 190-24, the Commanding General, Joint Readiness Training
Center and Fort Polk, as the sponsoring commander, approved the recommendations made by the
board at its 21 September 2005 meeting to place, or continue to place, OFF LIMITS restrictions
on the following establishments:
NAME ADDRESS
There are currently no off limits establishments in the local area.
2. The Commanding General, Joint Readiness Training Center and Fort Polk, approved the
recommendation of the Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board to adopt the following
establishments which are off limits in the Barksdale Air Force Base area.
NAME ADDRESS
PIPES EMPORIUM 1304 CENTENARY, BOSSIER CITY, LA
KOKOPELLIS 630 COMMERCE STREET, SHREVEPORT, LA
HEAVY'S LOUNGE 2540 BARKSDALE BLVD, BOSSIER CITY, LA
3. Military personnel are prohibited from entering the above Off Limits establishments or areas
(paragraph 2-6b, AR 190-24). Violators can be subjected to disciplinary action under the UCMJ.
4. All commanders and general and special staff directors will ensure that their military
personnel are informed of the above listed establishments. The notice can be oral, by posting on
unit bulletin board, or by handing a copy of this memorandum to each individual.
I
IMSW-POL-ES
SUBJECT: Off Limits Establishments
5. Should you have any questions regarding the Off Limits establishments list, contact Mrs.
Manning at 531-7020,
C
OIIN C. LEGGE
LTC, MP
President , AFDCB
DISTRIBUTION:
A Plus
2
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frankomav47
4/29/08
9:04 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 08:51 AM) [snapback]383312[/snapback] I am not the one who brought up the issue of women and combat and correlating it to this discussion that was Lysol , I only answered that issue raised by Lysol that under the stress of combat heterosexual men are so weak that they must be allowed to turn to porn for comfort and women should be kept from combat so heterosexual men can pursue their porn without concern for its impact on women. Not me who raised the combat issue talk to lysol
I am sure that the citizens of Japan are tired of hearing about their underage girls being raped by heterosexual men who can not control their need for sexual gratification. The citizems of the Phillipines are equally tired of the sex trade and raping of their your women by US servicemen.
As far as defending me Name one country that directly attacked or even indirectly attacked US that I have been defended against in the last 52 years of my life.
Viet Nam, no
Korea, no
Panama, no
Iraq no
Why am I spending money to station troops in Europe who certainly can defend itself, Or Japan which can certainly defend itself.
Japan's army is only ten years old and just FYI,we are still there as a peacekeeping force and will remain there for another ten years. We are also training their officers in high tech warfare. They're are not quite ready to defend themselves. |
Pericles
4/29/08
9:05 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 08:56 AM) [snapback]383326[/snapback]
Ahh yes, good ole Ft Benning. While brothel's are illegal in most states, including Georgia, you can get serviced at Heavenly Hands in Columbus or give Water Fingers a call.
There are more but I don't want to "out" them.
And why is that different than massage parlors in Philadelphia, San Francisco, Water Street in Lancaster, or any other place that sells sex?
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Lysol54
4/29/08
9:09 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:03 AM) [snapback]383334[/snapback]
Twice in 25 years.
How about at any local university? Or any US city?
The fact is that the military has less crime than the general population.
twice? your kidding right?
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/JC05Dh01.html
Um i have quite a few friends from college that were from Fayetteville NC. They had quite a problem sometimes. Along with Wilmington NC and Myrtle Beach. Marines on leave would come in and cause all kinds of problems. I'm not dogging the military by saying this stuff Pericles, so don't get all defensive about it. But to sit there and say this sort of thing just doesn't go on is foolish.
QUOTE(frankomav47 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:04 AM) [snapback]383339[/snapback]
Japan's army is only ten years old and just FYI,we are still there as a peacekeeping force and will remain there for another ten years. We are also training their officers in high tech warfare. There are not quite ready to defend themselves.
Japan's army is only 10 years old? Where did you get that information.
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grieker
4/29/08
9:10 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:05 AM) [snapback]383340[/snapback]
And why is that different than massage parlors in Philadelphia, San Francisco, Water Street in Lancaster, or any other place that sells sex?
Not any different at all, I guess I'm missing the point again.
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Lysol54
4/29/08
9:11 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 09:10 AM) [snapback]383344[/snapback]
Not any different at all, I guess I'm missing the point again.
Yeah i wasn't quite sure what that post was supposed to mean? Pericles was the one saying that there were no brothels near bases? Sex workers go where they can make money. Military bases are prime choicess, lots of single men.
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grieker
4/29/08
9:14 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:03 AM) [snapback]383334[/snapback]
The fact is that the military has less crime than the general population.
Yes sir, that is a fact. The reason: PUNISHMENT is dealt swiftly and heavily providing an excellent deterrent. Something the "civil" side of the house is desperately in need of.
"Hope", I know I ended my sentence with a preposition but I just didn't want to change it, please forgive me.
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Pericles
4/29/08
9:14 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 09:10 AM) [snapback]383344[/snapback]
Not any different at all, I guess I'm missing the point again.
The point I'm countering is that somehow military people are more prone to engage in that sort of behavior.
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frankomav47
4/29/08
9:23 AM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:09 AM) [snapback]383342[/snapback] twice? your kidding right? http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/JC05Dh01.htmlUm i have quite a few friends from college that were from Fayetteville NC. They had quite a problem sometimes. Along with Wilmington NC and Myrtle Beach. Marines on leave would come in and cause all kinds of problems. I'm not dogging the military by saying this stuff Pericles, so don't get all defensive about it. But to sit there and say this sort of thing just doesn't go on is foolish. Japan's army is only 10 years old? Where did you get that information.
When WWII was over, part of the surrender agreement was that Japan was banned from having any type of armed forces whatsoever for fifty years. That ban was just lifted 12 years ago.
We have had our military there for their protection since then, as well as Britain and a few other countries.
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Pericles
4/29/08
9:23 AM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:09 AM) [snapback]383342[/snapback]
That's a biased article. There have been problems, but not out of proportion from what one would see among the general US population. When it happens in Okinawa it becomes an international incident. When it happens in Lancaster, it's buried in the local section.
I have relatives living on Okinawa - Okinawans. They know that a few bad apples cause most of the problems and they generally don't resent the American presence.
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Lysol54
4/29/08
9:24 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:14 AM) [snapback]383348[/snapback]
The point I'm countering is that somehow military people are more prone to engage in that sort of behavior.
I would say that they are. You have a higher concentration of people that are more prone to that sort of behavior in a confined area. So its going to happen, why do you think brothals tend to pop up around military bases?? Go look at Japan right after WWII, they had Japanese government run brothals to service both US and Japanese.
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Pericles
4/29/08
9:26 AM | QUOTE(frankomav47 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:23 AM) [snapback]383352[/snapback]
When WWII was over, part of the surrender agreement was that Japan was banned from having any type of armed forces whatsoever for fifty years. That ban was just lifted 12 years ago.
We have had our military there for their protection since then, as well as Britain and a few other countries.
I believe that the Japanese Constitution prohibited offensive military operations.
They've had a defensive military (JDF) for many years which included and army, navy and air force.
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Lysol54
4/29/08
9:29 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:23 AM) [snapback]383353[/snapback]
That's a biased article. There have been problems, but not out of proportion from what one would see among the general US population. When it happens in Okinawa it becomes an international incident. When it happens in Lancaster, it's buried in the local section.
I have relatives living on Okinawa - Okinawans. They know that a few bad apples cause most of the problems and they generally don't resent the American presence.
I showed the articles for the number of rapes, not the rest of the stuff. Of course its not going to show things in a light thats benificial. But what it did show that there have been more than 2 rapes in 25 years like you said. You were the one that made that statement. Your right, just like everything else it just takes a few bad apples to make everyone else look bad. But thats life. I'm pretty sure though when an underage girl here is raped it becomes a pretty big deal here as well. As far as the types of sex crimes in relation to the rest of the population, i would be interested to see the comparrision.
QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:26 AM) [snapback]383356[/snapback]
I believe that the Japanese Constitution prohibited offensive military operations.
They've had a defensive military (JDF) for many years which included and army, navy and air force.
Thats how i've always understood it. THey could not have an offensive military, just a JDF as you stated. THey could not participate in an active warzone etc. Although i think Frank was correct in saying that was lifted a few years ago, and they were in Afganistan. |
Alyssarah1
4/29/08
9:35 AM | This whole issue is just plain silly. When they stop wanting to look at those awful porn mags, then I'll worry about them. |
frankomav47
4/29/08
9:42 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:26 AM) [snapback]383356[/snapback]
I believe that the Japanese Constitution prohibited offensive military operations.
They've had a defensive military (JDF) for many years which included and army, navy and air force.
"They've had a defensive military (JDF) for many years which included and army, navy and air force."
Yes, they have, all have been under the command of the United States Military and Air Force since 1946. All those who were part of Japan's Military since then
have been members of the United States Military. At least, that's what the surrender called for. I wasn't there for all fifity years so I suppose I'm not a hundred percent sure. But it was in the news back in the 1996 that the ban had been lifted.
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:35 AM) [snapback]383361[/snapback] This whole issue is just plain silly. When they stop wanting to look at those awful porn mags, then I'll worry about them.
OOOHHHHH A1 not you too??? I'm crushed !! 
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grieker
4/29/08
9:43 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 09:14 AM) [snapback]383348[/snapback]
The point I'm countering is that somehow military people are more prone to engage in that sort of behavior.
I hole heartedly agree with you.
Absolutely not. Mind you now, I'm only basing that on 20 years of experience.
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frankomav47
4/29/08
10:02 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 09:43 AM) [snapback]383366[/snapback]
I hole heartedly agree with you.
Absolutely not. Mind you now, I'm only basing that on 20 years of experience.
This will probably satisfy any doubts anyone has on the issue.
ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.
Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution not only forbids the use of force as a means to settling international disputes but also forbids Japan from maintaining an army, navy or air force. Therefore, in strictly legal terms, the Self Defense Forces are not an army, navy and air force, but are extensions of the national police force. This has had broad implications for foreign, security and defense policy. The ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) government has interpreted Article 9 as renouncing the use of warfare in international disputes but not the internal use of force for the purpose of maintaining law and order. The main opposition party, the Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ) tends to concur with the government's interpretation. At the same time, both parties have advocated the revision of Article 9 by adding an extra clause explicitly authorizing the use of force for the purpose of self-defense against aggression directed against the Japanese nation. The now-defunct Japan Socialist Party (JSP), on the other hand, had considered the Japan Self-Defense Forces (JSDF) as unconstitutional and advocated the full implementation of Article 9 through the demilitarization of Japan. When the party joined with the LDP to form a coalition government, it reversed its position and recognized the JSDF as a structure that was constitutional. The Japanese Communist Party (JCP) considers the JSDF unconstitutional and has called for reorganization of Japanese defense policy to feature an armed militia.
BBL |
Bigby_M
4/29/08
10:22 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 08:35 AM) [snapback]383309[/snapback]
What about Tijuana? It exists because of a nearby military base? Which one in particular? Have you been to Tijuana? Seems to me that are more college students adn regular tourists than military people.
Yeah you are right Pericles. The sailors in San diego would not dream of visiting the brothels. And brothels popping up near military bases is just a coincidence.
Now get that head back in the sand before you get scared of something.
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Bigby_M
4/29/08
10:33 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 29 2008, 09:00 AM) [snapback]383333[/snapback]
The ENTIRE city of Frankfurt was off limits to the Army for a few YEARS. I will say I have never found a city that hated the installations.
How about Baghdad?
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Pericles
4/29/08
10:37 AM | QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 29 2008, 10:22 AM) [snapback]383409[/snapback] Yeah you are right Pericles. The sailors in San diego would not dream of visiting the brothels. And brothels popping up near military bases is just a coincidence. Now get that head back in the sand before you get scared of something.
Do sailors visit the local massage parlors and strip clubs around Lancaster and Reading?
You can't see the point because you don't want to see the point.
Although you have a liberal, anti-military point of view, you do seem to be an expert on the military and most other subjects as well.
Can you further enlighten us regarding the propensity of sailors to visit hookers in comparison to the general population?
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Lysol54
4/29/08
10:50 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 10:37 AM) [snapback]383419[/snapback]
Do sailors visit the local massage parlors and strip clubs around Lancaster and Reading?
You can't see the point because you don't want to see the point.
Although you have a liberal, anti-military point of view, you do seem to be an expert on the military and most other subjects as well.
Can you further enlighten us regarding the propensity of sailors to visit hookers in comparison to the general population?
We don't have a Naval base here in Lancaster Pericles. Your comparing apples to oranges. What does being liberal have to do with this whole discussion? You seem to be an expert on a lot of stuff you obviously have little knowledege of, but its a problem if someone else has an opinion?? You constantly have to bring that up. No one is dogging the military as a whole here, but for you to say that this sort of thing doesn't happen around bases, etc is just foolish. |
dragonrider
4/29/08
11:42 AM | To answer a question that was put to me. I have no problem with the fact that some men like to look at pictures of naked women. But if you can not control your need to participate in that activity that is called an addiction. The military is saying that the presence of porn in the on site stores is adverse to good order and discipline and if a man can not control his need for porn than he has an addiction problem and should probably not be in the military. I know that looking at women is normal for men but controlling your behavior to fit the situation is called being mature and responsible. |
Pericles
4/29/08
12:02 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 11:42 AM) [snapback]383477[/snapback] The military is saying that the presence of porn in the on site stores is adverse to good order and discipline and if a man can not control his need for porn than he has an addiction problem and should probably not be in the military. I know that looking at women is normal for men but controlling your behavior to fit the situation is called being mature and responsible.
How did you reach that conclusion? It's not mentioned in the bill and there are no articles listed that pertain to the bill.
You're problem is that you have no concept of reality for military personnel.
You have a soldier separated from his wife, in a combat zone, without sex for 15 months, working 20 hours a day, getting shot at, seeing his friends killed, and he wants to read a Penthouse magazine... and you label him a porn addict. You have some nerve, especially living in your safe little house, sleeping in your nice warm bed.
Who's more mature and responsible? You?
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dragonrider
4/29/08
12:12 PM | In Pennsylvania we have State stores for buying alcohol. What is wrong with saying that those in the military should not buy their porn off base. And while I have no problem with a man seperated from his sweetie turning to pictures of naked women I do believe that such activity should be kept in private . Do you have a problem with people being expected to view their porn in private and for the military to say that their stores are not an appropriate place to sell porn. That porn should be bought in a more private location than base stores. Why do you not also understand that a gay man may want to also express his sexuality and look at gay porn while serving overseas for 15 months awar from his sweetie. |
grieker
4/29/08
12:15 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 12:12 PM) [snapback]383505[/snapback] In Pennsylvania we have State stores for buying alcohol. What is wrong with saying that those in the military should not buy their porn off base. And while I have no problem with a man seperated from his sweetie turning to pictures of naked women I do believe that such activity should be kept in private . Do you have a problem with people being expected to view their porn in private and for the military to say that their stores are not an appropriate place to sell porn. That porn should be bought in a more private location than base stores. Why do you not also understand that a gay man may want to also express his sexuality and look at gay porn while serving overseas for 15 months awar from his sweetie.
Where would be a more private location than base stores?
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dragonrider
4/29/08
12:22 PM | How about those brothels off base, families Christians and women use the base stores not just Lust filled heterosexual men |
Bigby_M
4/29/08
12:25 PM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 10:37 AM) [snapback]383419[/snapback]
Do sailors visit the local massage parlors and strip clubs around Lancaster and Reading?
You can't see the point because you don't want to see the point.
Although you have a liberal, anti-military point of view, you do seem to be an expert on the military and most other subjects as well.
Can you further enlighten us regarding the propensity of sailors to visit hookers in comparison to the general population?
I said that bordellos are near military bases. I didn't say the military is a bunch of floozies who spend all their time at whorehouses, that was a conclusion you lept to in your haste.
Bordellos spring up near military bases because of the nature of the conditions at those bases, ie they are not having norman relations because of their being apart from the rest of society.
Bordellos spring up near military bases near the Italian army bases and probaly every other nationality.
Prostitutes will be waiting for the ships to come in because they know the sailors have been out to sea for 6 momths and are horny as hell.
Comprende?
Your zeal for being offended because of your misunderstanding is understandable.
Maybe you should have a drink and stop being so uptight. |
Lysol54
4/29/08
12:32 PM | QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 29 2008, 12:25 PM) [snapback]383519[/snapback] Comprende? Your zeal for being offended because of your misunderstanding is understandable. Maybe you should have a drink and stop being so uptight.
Funny for a guy like Pericles is always so quick to call everyone else an offended liberal, he really jumped off the deep end here. I mean just making stuff up left and right to try and prove his point. Not using anything to back it up with. Only 2 rapes in Okinawa in 25 years? Come on Pericles, stop being a paranoid Repub.
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dragonrider
4/29/08
12:35 PM | Perhaps we need some faith based abstinance only education for the military. Sex is only for the confines of a marriage so I have been told. |
ihavehorns
4/29/08
1:37 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 28 2008, 04:14 PM) [snapback]383130[/snapback]
That is now correct, the installation falls under federal authority and most allow consumptsion on the installation.
My daughter is overseas and on her base underage drinking is definitely NOT allowed and if you get caught you are going to captains mast and face spending time in the brig. |
Lysol54
4/29/08
2:02 PM | QUOTE(ihavehorns @ Apr 29 2008, 01:37 PM) [snapback]383570[/snapback]
My daughter is overseas and on her base underage drinking is definitely NOT allowed and if you get caught you are going to captains mast and face spending time in the brig.
Well i think like a few people said, its up to the base commander as to what they will or won't allow.
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frankomav47
4/29/08
9:15 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 11:42 AM) [snapback]383477[/snapback] To answer a question that was put to me. I have no problem with the fact that some men like to look at pictures of naked women. But if you can not control your need to participate in that activity that is called an addiction. The military is saying that the presence of porn in the on site stores is adverse to good order and discipline and if a man can not control his need for porn than he has an addiction problem and should probably not be in the military. I know that looking at women is normal for men but controlling your behavior to fit the situation is called being mature and responsible.
So if my buds and I decide to sit outside our favorite watering hole and look at all the pretty ladies going by, that's an addiction ?
"But if you can not control your need to participate in that activity that is called an addiction".
They must be controlling it sometime, they have a war to fight!! What do you think they're doing in their foxholes ? Looking at pictures and wackin' their pee pees ? Come on
DR I think you can do better than that. |
dragonrider
4/29/08
9:21 PM | How do you get from an uncontrollable need to look at porn to choosing to look at pretty girls walking by as synonomous.
I have no idea if they are whacking off in their foxholes while perusing porn that falls in the category of NOMFB But if you want to play pocket pull while reading porn do it in private. |
frankomav47
4/29/08
9:36 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 12:35 PM) [snapback]383525[/snapback] Perhaps we need some faith based abstinance only education for the military. Sex is only for the confines of a marriage so I have been told.
DragonRider;
It appears your age and amount of recent participation in one of the finer things in life, have clouded your ability to see how your sexuality used to matter. That is of course, unless you have always been a prude !
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 09:21 PM) [snapback]383748[/snapback] How do you get from an uncontrollable need to look at porn to choosing to look at pretty girls walking by as synonomous.
I have no idea if they are whacking off in their foxholes while perusing porn that falls in the category of NOMFB But if you want to play pocket pull while reading porn do it in private.
First of all who originally said it was an uncontrollable need ?
Second, the only difference is the one's we are looking at have clothing on but most look just as good !!
IT'S A MAN'S NATURE TO LOOK AT WOMEN !! WITH OR WITHOUT CLOTHING !! Seems to me, it was God's intention !! How's that for some spiritualism 
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dragonrider
4/29/08
9:44 PM | I still fail to see how being inconveinienced by having to buy your porn off campus is such a hardship. If a gay man can refrain from even hinting at his sexuality surely a heterosexual man can wait and buy his porn off campus.
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frankomav47
4/29/08
10:03 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 09:44 PM) [snapback]383757[/snapback] I still fail to see how being inconveinienced by having to buy your porn off campus is such a hardship. If a gay man can refrain from even hinting at his sexuality surely a heterosexual man can wait and buy his porn off campus.
Now that part makes sense, so where'd the rest of the BS come from ?? |
frankomav47
4/29/08
10:27 PM | QUOTE(frankomav47 @ Apr 29 2008, 10:03 PM) [snapback]383768[/snapback] Now that part makes sense, so where'd the rest of the BS come from ??
I guess what I'm asking is why isn't anyone saying anything about the single women in the military posting a shot of their favorite hunk in their locker, or the headboard of their bunk. An educated guess would be maybe 30% have their favorite stud in their locker.
Even when I was in they did it. |
Alyssarah1
4/30/08
8:15 AM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Apr 29 2008, 02:02 PM) [snapback]383590[/snapback]
Well i think like a few people said, its up to the base commander as to what they will or won't allow.
I think that's true. My brother told me about the porn pickups they did when he was in Iraq. They would announce that inspections would be made for questionable reading materials, then put a container in front of the building for disposal of such material. After the inspections were done and everything found to be ok, the guys would go retrieve their reading material. I doubt if they found any Popular Mechanics.
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Pericles
4/30/08
8:47 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 29 2008, 09:44 PM) [snapback]383757[/snapback] I still fail to see how being inconveinienced by having to buy your porn off campus is such a hardship. If a gay man can refrain from even hinting at his sexuality surely a heterosexual man can wait and buy his porn off campus.
It's off base not off campus.
Maybe when you join the real world you'll have a better understanding.
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dragonrider
4/30/08
8:49 AM | Where did you find 30% of the women in the military straight enough not to have a playboy pinup in their locker as well. |
Lysol54
4/30/08
8:53 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 30 2008, 08:47 AM) [snapback]383885[/snapback]
It's off base not off campus.
Maybe when you join the real world you'll have a better understanding.
Ah yes Pericles the master of everything. If you don't have anything besides gossip and sniping maybe you should just keep it to yourself.
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Ludite
4/30/08
9:11 AM | I agree with the ban. This way our noble soldiers won't be enticed into raping fourteen year old girls and murdering entire families. |
grieker
4/30/08
9:21 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 30 2008, 08:47 AM) [snapback]383885[/snapback]
It's off base not off campus.
Maybe when you join the real world you'll have a better understanding.
Could be off post as well which is why I usually say off the installation.
I don't know what has all these folks feathers ruffled about what individuals choose to read/look at. It's like we are attacking their rights when in fact it is the other way around, the soldiers, sailors, airman and marines (can't forget the coasties) are the ones having their rights attacked.
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Paul Sweedlepipe
4/30/08
10:14 AM | QUOTE(Pericles @ Apr 29 2008, 06:03 AM) [snapback]383334[/snapback]
Twice in 25 years.
How about at any local university? Or any US city?
The fact is that the military has less crime than the general population.
we lived in Japan for two years on the Navy base just south of Tokyo. While we were there, there were two murders, several rapes, untold numbers of robberies and assaults. Since we left last fall, there was another murder, a stabbing and I am certain more crime that just didn't make its way back here to the newspapers. All these crimes were committed by US Navy personnel on Japanese citizens. My neighbor was friends with a Navy lawyer. My friend asked her what need is there for a lawyer here and she responded with something like "you simply would not belive the amount of BS we deal with - rape, assault, etc." She said she had more work than one person could rightly handle.
The behavior of many of those servicemen and woman is positively disgraceful. I saw them out in restaurants and on the streets and it was so embarassing - many of them have zero respect for the natives. But I guess that's what happens when you send kids who have not even completed high school and are still sleeping on Superman sheets in their parents' homes to the other side of the earth with no supervision.
Indeed they may have a crime rate less than that of the general population, but still, they should be held to a higher standard. We're guests in those countries and should keep their American attitudes of entitlement to themselves while out and about.
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Bigby_M
4/30/08
10:25 AM | QUOTE(Paul Sweedlepipe @ Apr 30 2008, 10:14 AM) [snapback]383947[/snapback]
The behavior of many of those servicemen and woman is positively disgraceful. I saw them out in restaurants and on the streets and it was so embarassing - many of them have zero respect for the natives.
What do you expect given who their Commander in Chief is?
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grieker
4/30/08
10:28 AM | QUOTE(Ludite @ Apr 30 2008, 09:11 AM) [snapback]383902[/snapback] I agree with the ban. This way our noble soldiers won't be enticed into raping fourteen year old girls and murdering entire families.
You forgot the little sarcasim icon.
QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 30 2008, 10:25 AM) [snapback]383956[/snapback] What do you expect given who their Commander in Chief is?
Oh yea, it was much better under Billy and Jimmy wasn't it? Nice cheap shot however it is as pointless as the poster.
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Pericles
4/30/08
10:39 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 30 2008, 10:28 AM) [snapback]383957[/snapback]
You forgot the little sarcasim icon.
No he didn't. He had this thing against the military. Sees them as baby killers and murderers.
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dragonrider
4/30/08
12:26 PM | And then we have had the Viet Nam war and the war in Iraq to prove that american soldiers are indeed torturers and baby killers. |
freethought
4/30/08
12:51 PM | I see now - its porn that is obscene and not the war. I'm glad Mr. Pitts cleared that up. We wouldn't want him wasting his time on a bill to end the war with all this porn around. |
grieker
4/30/08
1:41 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 30 2008, 12:26 PM) [snapback]384043[/snapback] And then we have had the Viet Nam war and the war in Iraq to prove that american soldiers are indeed torturers and baby killers.
Good thing terrorists aren't soldiers, otherwise I'd have to say you are a hyprocrit.
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dragonrider
4/30/08
2:01 PM | You are right I forgot the new American paradigm which says if our enemies do it it justifies us doing it. Guess I better go throw away that pesky little international war crimes book.
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grieker
4/30/08
2:06 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 30 2008, 02:01 PM) [snapback]384132[/snapback] You are right I forgot the new American paradigm which says if our enemies do it it justifies us doing it. Guess I better go throw away that pesky little international war crimes book.
First of all, a paradigm is nothing but 20 cents.
If we would have been going after those who did us harm in the past we wouldn't be in as much of a mess as we are today. There are no easy answers only tough decisions and not enough of them have been made.
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dragonrider
4/30/08
2:24 PM | Absolutely right if we had just nuked the place to glass and got rid off all them pesky little arabs we could continue to waste energy in the Good Ole USofA |
grieker
4/30/08
2:29 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 30 2008, 02:24 PM) [snapback]384141[/snapback] Absolutely right if we had just nuked the place to glass and got rid off all them pesky little arabs we could continue to waste energy in the Good Ole USofA
Zactly!
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Bigby_M
4/30/08
2:50 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 30 2008, 10:28 AM) [snapback]383957[/snapback]
Oh yea, it was much better under Billy and Jimmy wasn't it? Nice cheap shot however it is as pointless as the poster.
Cheap shot? Pointless. Just because you don't get it doesn't make it pointless.
Do you think Bush and Cheney have respect for the natives of Iraq?
How about for the natives of the United States.
His record sure doesn't look like he does.
Is torture considered respect for the natives?
QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 30 2008, 02:01 PM) [snapback]384132[/snapback] You are right I forgot the new American paradigm which says if our enemies do it it justifies us doing it. Guess I better go throw away that pesky little international war crimes book.
Ah yes Common Article 3. Since Bush signed legislation giving immunity to torturers and the lawyers like Gonzolez and Addington who enabled that torture and clearly violating the Geneva Convention,, they cannot be prosecuted here, but , alas granting immunity at home is a trip-wire for international courts to make arrests for war crimes trials.
QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 30 2008, 02:06 PM) [snapback]384133[/snapback]
If we would have been going after those who did us harm in the past we wouldn't be in as much of a mess as we are today.
Yes had we gone after Osama instead of Saddam, we wouldn't be in this mess in Iraq.Great to know you are on the right side.
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grieker
4/30/08
2:51 PM | QUOTE(Bigby_M @ Apr 30 2008, 02:48 PM) [snapback]384155[/snapback] Cheap shot? Pointless. Just because you don't get it doesn't make it pointless. Do you think Bush and Cheney have respect for the natives of Iraq? How about for the natives of the United States. His record sure doesn't look like he does. Ah yes Common Article 3. Since Bush signed legislation giving immunity to torturers and the lawyers like Gonzolez and Addington who enabled that torture and clearly and knowingly violating the Geneva Convention,, they cannot be prosecuted here, but , alas granting immunity at home is a trip-wire for international courts to make arrests for war crimes trials.
Because you don't believe his record looks like doesn't make it so!
Common Article 3. Never been to war have you bud? Didn't think so, go back inside and close the shutters and cower in fear.
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Bigby_M
4/30/08
3:17 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 30 2008, 02:51 PM) [snapback]384158[/snapback]
Because you don't believe his record looks like doesn't make it so!
Common Article 3. Never been to war have you bud? Didn't think so, go back inside and close the shutters and cower in fear.
Yes torturing people without due process after invading them is not respectful and neither is shooting civilians.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebART/375-590006
Defend torture and war crimes i you want bud, that just makes you like them.
QUOTE(grieker @ Apr 30 2008, 02:51 PM) [snapback]384158[/snapback]
Because you don't believe his record looks like doesn't make it so!
Sorry Mr. Van Winkle, or may I call you Rip. Had you not been asleep you could have seen Bush and Cheney's record for yourself.
Pretty disrespectful of Americans and furners.
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dragonrider
5/1/08
1:18 AM | To return to the original topic, can someone please explain to me why heterosexual men should be put upon becuase they have to go off base to buy a playboy while a homosexual man must not even hang up a fully clothed picture of his sweetie.
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grieker
5/1/08
7:20 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ May 1 2008, 01:18 AM) [snapback]384365[/snapback] To return to the original topic, can someone please explain to me why heterosexual men should be put upon becuase they have to go off base to buy a playboy while a homosexual man must not even hang up a fully clothed picture of his sweetie.
Seems as though it would somehow violate the "don't ask don't tell" policy.
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Pericles
5/1/08
7:55 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Apr 30 2008, 12:26 PM) [snapback]384043[/snapback] And then we have had the Viet Nam war and the war in Iraq to prove that american soldiers are indeed torturers and baby killers.
http://www.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=90342
Sick, twisted college students raping innocent victims to fulfill their lust.
How can you possibly be a part of that? |
dragonrider
5/1/08
11:41 AM | Greiker you didn't answer my question, yes we have don't ask don't tell and now we have this proposal to remove porn from BASE stores. How can you argue that a heterosexual man can not go 15 months without buying porn in a base store (porn which he could buy in a townie store) and then argue that a gay man must go 3 years without even hinting that he has a boyfriend at home waiting for him. Either you argument of the heterosexuals need for porn is poorly founded or you are being totally unfair to the gay men who are serving honorably.
Which is it? hmmmmmm Or are heterosexuals so limp wristed that they can not refrain from porn for 15 months.
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grieker
5/1/08
1:29 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ May 1 2008, 11:41 AM) [snapback]384565[/snapback] Greiker you didn't answer my question, yes we have don't ask don't tell and now we have this proposal to remove porn from BASE stores. How can you argue that a heterosexual man can not go 15 months without buying porn in a base store (porn which he could buy in a townie store) and then argue that a gay man must go 3 years without even hinting that he has a boyfriend at home waiting for him. Either you argument of the heterosexuals need for porn is poorly founded or you are being totally unfair to the gay men who are serving honorably.
Which is it? hmmmmmm Or are heterosexuals so limp wristed that they can not refrain from porn for 15 months.
Well I guess I'm being totally unfair to the gay men and women. |
