Anatomy of an (absent) hit piece

February 26th, 2008 9:51 pm · 51 comments

So Marv (my boss) forwards me an e-mail, and apparently we’ve gotten quite a few of these this week:

I find the implication that someone who has dedicated his or her life to serving America lacks patriotism utterly unpalatable. But reading Nedra Pickler of the AP’s Sunday smear piece against Senator Barack Obama, it appears that some in the media do not share this opinion.

No doubt that as the campaign season heats up we will hear ever more despicable attacks from conservatives desperate to retain their grip on power. I do not feel that it is the media’s place to trumpet these substance-less attacks, and I hope that in the future we can expect reporting that focuses on the candidate’s positions rather than trying to call into question how much they love the country they tirelessly serve.

Signed by a guy in Coatesville.

I’m with his sentiment, because Pickler’s piece over the weekend was downright execrable. My favorite part was where she quoted one Roger Stone - that would be this Roger Stone, veteran of Nixon’s CREEP who’s admitted to bribery and who most recently was accused of making threatening phone calls to N.Y. gov. Elliott Spitzer’s elderly father - and, who has set up an anti-Hillary group called Citizens United Not Timid.

You figure out the acronym.

So, nice guy. Go-to guy when you want to talk about patriotism, obviously - or as far as Pickler’s concerened.

But let me tell you how this works, if you’re Pickler. See, you’re an AP writer, and your bosses are counting on you to produce. Well, since you’re on the politics beat you can do that a number of ways. You can go digging, but depending on what you find, it might not endear you to the candidates, the folks you have to cover. Take this approach and you might get aced out. And if you’re aced out - you don’t produce. You don’t produce, you’re in trouble.

There’s another way.

You can snuggle up to some folks who might throw a few story ideas your way. You could snuggle up to the folks on the left - or, you could snuggle up to the folks on the right. Pickler’s fairly renowned for snuggling up to the right - she married to a guy from Fox News, to boot.

So, this is what she does; and her stories get play (newspapers looking to be “fair and balanced,” after all). She produces. Her bosses are happy. She’s happy.

No one, of course, is happier than the Roger Stones of the world.

So, the letters we got in response to this story are wholly warranted, except for one thing. Our newspaper didn’t actually run the story; it didn’t make it in. In part because it was so obvious a hit piece (and no, we didn’t run last week’s Times’ McCain thing, either).

So I appreciate the sentiment; there are a lot of papers that ran this - maybe even without much thinking about it - and it’s good to make them think about it. Newspapers are pretty famously cowed by the right these days - the right makes a lot of noise about the “liberal media” and papers bend over backwards to get this stuff in in order to say “See? See? We’re fair and balanced!”

But, you might keep your powder dry until you’ve actually checked that the paper to which you direct your ire actually ran the piece. Feel free to give us something to think about - so long as, you know, there’s actually something to think about.

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  51 comments  Tags: Media · national politics · Uncategorized

There are currently 51 comments on this blog post
View Topic | Comment on this blog
MelMedian
2/26/08
9:20 PM
Personally, I am still wondering where Gil got 18% for a Bush approval rating. A quick check reveals that Bush's polls are not nearly that low. However, Congress' was in January.



Would Mr. Smart care to enlighten us?

gsmart
2/26/08
9:28 PM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 26 2008, 10:20 PM) [snapback]361180[/snapback]
Personally, I am still wondering where Gil got 18% for a Bush approval rating. A quick check reveals that Bush's polls are not nearly that low. However, Congress' was in January.



Would Mr. Smart care to enlighten us?



18 was actually a typo - should have been 19:

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/

Among all Americans, 19% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 77% disapprove. When it comes to Bush's handling of the economy, 14% approve and 79% disapprove.
MelMedian
2/26/08
9:33 PM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Feb 26 2008, 10:28 PM) [snapback]361183[/snapback]


18 was actually a typo - should have been 19:

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/

Among all Americans, 19% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 77% disapprove. When it comes to Bush's handling of the economy, 14% approve and 79% disapprove.




Oh really? You do realize that the American Research Group has some issues?



http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007/12/pr...arch-group.html

gsmart
2/26/08
9:44 PM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 26 2008, 10:33 PM) [snapback]361185[/snapback]




Oh really? You do realize that the American Research Group has some issues?



http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007/12/pr...arch-group.html



Ah, I see then we count you among the 19 percent.

The "debunking" is laughable. Tell you what - give the Center for Politics and Public Affairs at F&M a call and ask how many people with cell phones only particpate in their surveys. That is, in fact, a widespread issue in terms of polling - but a Pew study finds that it hasn't made a big difference. And, in the instance of Teh Leader - given that those without landlines tend to be younger - are you then suggesting that this demographic is likely to be more favorable to Mr. Bush?
bigstew
2/26/08
10:00 PM
Nice gil. He questions you, and he is automatically summed up as someone of the minority, to be categorized for the mere audacity of putting a question to you. A poster that agrees with your slant will avoid a generalization I presume.
MelMedian
2/27/08
1:33 AM
All the other polls I see at www.pollingreport.com indicate Bush's favorability rating is substantially higher than 18% - somewhere above 30%. This is up to date and from a wide range of publications.

Congress, on the other hand, gets a lower favorability rating among nearly each and every poll listed.

I am curious, did you even bother to research this? It will be interesting to see if you clarify this "typo" in your future endevours. Somehow, I think not.

Because although you like to spout off about Bush's supposed failures, you are living in this perpetual denial that the Democrat-controlled Congress is a rousing success story.
Pericles
2/27/08
11:48 AM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Feb 26 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]361177[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


There is a general distrust of the patriotism of liberals. It's a fact. Throwing medals over the White House fence, refusing to wear an American flag pin, and making statements about never being proud of our country before now reinforces that distrust.

Obama is winning the argument with the Democratic base, but I'm not convinced. Removing that flag pin from his lapel is a clear signal to the liberal wing of his party, "I'm with you, it's not hip to show the flag." His explanation was nonsense and we all know it.

When I vote for a president, I want to know that they love this country, that they are proud of the country, and they are proud to be an American. Apparently, this view is not held by all.
cyberscribbler
2/27/08
12:05 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 11:48 AM) [snapback]361310[/snapback]

refusing to wear an American flag pin
[attachmentid=1589]

Yes, we all know the only way to show your patriotism is to wear a flag pin or put a trite jingoistic magnet on your SUV.
rolleyes.gif


Lysol54
2/27/08
12:25 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Feb 26 2008, 11:00 PM) [snapback]361193[/snapback]
Nice gil. He questions you, and he is automatically summed up as someone of the minority, to be categorized for the mere audacity of putting a question to you. A poster that agrees with your slant will avoid a generalization I presume.




Stew at least he showed where his numbers came from. I'm sure they can argue back and forth as to what they really are. And as far as going after some one you should probally watch your mouth. You attack people constantly on here about all sorts of things. So next time before you go spouting off, take a little time to think.. That way you don't come off as a moron. Just looking out for ya bud... biggrin.gif



QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]361310[/snapback]


When I vote for a president, I want to know that they love this country, that they are proud of the country, and they are proud to be an American. Apparently, this view is not held by all.


And because they don't wear a little pin on their lapel they hate the flag, and the country?? Come on Pericles, time to stop drinking the Right wing Kool-aid. Give me a break. Well you go vote for Mccain, and i'll go vote for Obama. And then for the next 8 years we get to listen to all you right wingers !profanity! and moan about Obama.

Oh and where do you get this "fact" that their is a distrust of patriotism amoung liberals? You just making things up again? You do realize that this country was founded by "liberals"? You use the word but you have no idea what it even means. You just go by what your boys Limbaugh and Hannity tell you to think..

QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 02:33 AM) [snapback]361224[/snapback]

Congress, on the other hand, gets a lower favorability rating among nearly each and every poll listed.




Maybe you should go back and do some more checking there Mel. The numbers for both the president and the congress are just about the same, giving the margins of errors. But keep it up with your Right wing BS. Yeah its not Bushes fault now, its the Democratic Congress. Yeah because we all know you can just come right in after 6 years of mismanagement and fix everything right away. I mean how silly of us to think it would take time. Funny how you guys don't put any blame on Bush at all, you'll stick up for him till the cows come home. And then even questioning him is considered unpatriotic. I guess all the Repubs are good little sheep, keep on trusting your government, and never question anything. Because thats Un-patriotic.

Oh and next time you really shouldn't use a blogspot blog to try and discredit something.
mam0412
2/27/08
12:53 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]361310[/snapback]


There is a general distrust of the patriotism of liberals. It's a fact. Throwing medals over the White House fence, refusing to wear an American flag pin, and making statements about never being proud of our country before now reinforces that distrust.

Obama is winning the argument with the Democratic base, but I'm not convinced. Removing that flag pin from his lapel is a clear signal to the liberal wing of his party, "I'm with you, it's not hip to show the flag." His explanation was nonsense and we all know it.

When I vote for a president, I want to know that they love this country, that they are proud of the country, and they are proud to be an American. Apparently, this view is not held by all.


That is pure right-wing talking point bunk. Be sure to check out Cyber's pic of McCain's lapel flag pins. I assume you wear a lapel flag pin daily there Pericles. Oh, and do you say the Pledge of Allegiance everyday? I can actually picture you walking around with the Constitution under your arm pit, right next to your lapel pin that's right next to your hand that is placed over your heart as you murmur the Pledge of Allegiance. I'll bet you can recite the Pledge of Allegiance and sing the National Anthem all at the same time.

MelMedian
2/27/08
1:15 PM
[quote]Stew at least he showed where his numbers came from.[/quote]

Yeah, a very questionable source that doesn't chide with most major media publications - left and right.


[quote]I'm sure they can argue back and forth as to what they really are. [/quote]

There is no need to "argue" about it. It is irrefutable that the actual poll numbers in the major media publications are all much higher than 18%. Period.

[quote] Maybe you should go back and do some more checking there Mel.[/quote]

Well what do you know? They are still the same!

[quote] The numbers for both the president and the congress are just about the same, giving the margins of errors. [/quote]

Now that is what I would call a "state of denial".

[quote] But keep it up with your Right wing BS.[/quote]

How are the facts "right wing BS"?

[quote] Yeah its not Bushes fault now, its the Democratic Congress.[/quote]

Now you are catching on.

[quote] Yeah because we all know you can just come right in after 6 years of mismanagement and fix everything right away.[/quote]

Don't be so hard on poor Bill Clinton. He tried really hard in between his intern escapades.

[quote] Funny how you guys don't put any blame on Bush at all, you'll stick up for him till the cows come home.[/quote]

Funny how the Democrat Congress is doing so wonderful when their poll numbers are lower than the President you constantly whine about.

[quote] And then even questioning him is considered unpatriotic.[/quote]

There is a big difference between questioning Bush and constantly badgering the man with unfounded criticism, distorted facts, and often - outright lies.

[quote] I guess all the Repubs are good little sheep, keep on trusting your government, and never question anything. Because thats Un-patriotic.[/quote]

Gee, so are you saying that I should question things? Oh, just not Gil's source for his poll numbers I guess. Because then you will rant and rave like a maniac.

[quote] Oh and next time you really shouldn't use a blogspot blog to try and discredit something. [/quote]

Ok, I will use Daily Kos or Atrios or something of that nature, so that I can write my Sunday column in the Lancaster Newspaper.

cyberscribbler
2/27/08
1:16 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ Feb 27 2008, 12:53 PM) [snapback]361337[/snapback]
I assume you wear a lapel flag pin daily

Always. Otherwise the Patriot Police will get ya.
laugh.gif

[attachmentid=1592]
A Pledge Pin on your uniform!
Drop and give me 20!




mam0412
2/27/08
1:22 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 02:16 PM) [snapback]361346[/snapback]

Always. Otherwise the Patriot Police will get ya.
laugh.gif

[attachmentid=1592]
A Pledge Pin on your uniform!
Drop and give me 20!





LOL! Love it! laugh.gif

Pericles
2/27/08
1:32 PM
QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Feb 26 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]361177[/snapback]


Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.


trite jingoistic magnet on your SUV.

your hand that is placed over your heart as you murmur the Pledge of Allegiance

Displays of patriotism become fodder for insults?

Keep demonstrating the validity of my point.

I assume that no American flag flys from your front porch. That would be both jingoistic and tacky. Wouldn't it? And an embarassment with the neighbors as well?

Perhaps if just one of you from the vast patriotic left could give a concrete example from your personal lives, that you truly love our country , I may give you a bit more creedence. Otherwise, it's just more of the same. Patriotism is stupid. Got it.





mam0412
2/27/08
1:37 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 02:32 PM) [snapback]361353[/snapback]


trite jingoistic magnet on your SUV.

your hand that is placed over your heart as you murmur the Pledge of Allegiance

Displays of patriotism become fodder for insults?

Keep demonstrating the validity of my point.

I assume that no American flag flys from your front porch. That would be both jingoistic and tacky. Wouldn't it? And an embarassment with the neighbors as well?

Perhaps if just one of you from the vast patriotic left could give a concrete example from your personal lives, that you truly love our country , I may give you a bit more creedence. Otherwise, it's just more of the same. Patriotism is stupid. Got it.


It wasn't meant to be an attack Pericles. It's only fodder since you chose to view it that way. Just asking if you are as Patriotic as the supposed person you'd like to see be President. I personally would rather vote for someone who can make sound policy decisions - a flag lapel pin doesn't give me any indication of that. And yes, I actually do have an American flag flying on my porch. Won't take it down 'til the war is over either. Oh, and it's out there with my Obama yard sign and my car with Tim Kaine (VA Gov) and Jim Webb (VA Senate) bumper stickers. Why don't you provide proof that Democrats aren't Patriotic? There is none.
Pericles
2/27/08
1:40 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 02:16 PM) [snapback]361346[/snapback]

Always. Otherwise the Patriot Police will get ya.
laugh.gif

[attachmentid=1592]
A Pledge Pin on your uniform!
Drop and give me 20!



Why bother to stand when the national anthem is played?

Have you ever been proud of your country in your adult life?



cyberscribbler
2/27/08
1:43 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 01:32 PM) [snapback]361353[/snapback]
a concrete example from your personal lives, that you truly love our country

Why, are there House Unamerican Activities hearings scheduled, if I can't?

Pericles
2/27/08
1:49 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ Feb 27 2008, 02:37 PM) [snapback]361356[/snapback]


Why don't you provide proof that Democrats aren't Patriotic?


I said many people don't believe that liberals (not Democrats) are patriotic and I provided examples which you and others disparaged.

Can't prove what's in the heart though, so without absolutely any outward sign of love of country, we'll just have to take your word for it, that liberals really do love their country.


QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 02:43 PM) [snapback]361362[/snapback]

Why, are there House Unamerican Activities hearings scheduled, if I can't?



Credibility.
cyberscribbler
2/27/08
1:54 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 01:49 PM) [snapback]361363[/snapback]
I said many people don't believe that liberals (not Democrats) are patriotic

There you go getting all mushy again.

Many people believe conservatives (not Republicans) are cold hearted SOBs.
I can provide many examples.

rolleyes.gif
Lysol54
2/27/08
1:55 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 02:49 PM) [snapback]361363[/snapback]


I said many people don't believe that liberals (not Democrats) are patriotic and I provided examples which you and others disparaged.

Can't prove what's in the heart though, so without absolutely any outward sign of love of country, we'll just have to take your word for it, that liberals really do love their country.




Credibility.




Yeah ok whatever you say Pericles. You take one sentance out of context and use it to prove your whole point? . Are those the "facts" of which you speak? Maybe you should try a little harder next time. Like i said this country was founded by Liberals. People that stood up and questioned what was happening. Next time try using someone other than Rush Limbaugh or Fox News for your information.
BAG-17
2/27/08
2:01 PM
QUOTE
Yes, we all know the only way to show your patriotism is to wear a flag pin or put a trite jingoistic magnet on your SUV.cyberscribbler



Hey, it's a main factor in deciding my vote this fall!!Since using the abortion issue makes me a non-thinking right-winger!! rolleyes.gif

Gee, I hate how they screw-up my birthday month w/ all those dumb elections. mad.gif Thank the Lord there's pumpkin pie on the table! laugh.gif

Pericles
2/27/08
2:04 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 02:54 PM) [snapback]361366[/snapback]

There you go getting all mushy again.

Many people believe conservatives (not Republicans) are cold hearted SOBs.
I can provide many examples.

rolleyes.gif


Why not answer the question I asked?


MelMedian
2/27/08
2:06 PM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Feb 27 2008, 02:55 PM) [snapback]361368[/snapback]

Like i said this country was founded by Liberals. People that stood up and questioned what was happening.


And also killed alot of inconvenient people in their way, mostly red ones.
cyberscribbler
2/27/08
2:12 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 02:04 PM) [snapback]361373[/snapback]
give a concrete example from your personal lives, that you truly love our country
I work, pay my taxes, give to charities, and vote for candidates I believe will improve it, not send it to hell in a handbasket.

You're so touchy feely. wink.gif

QUOTE(MelMedian)

And also killed alot of inconvenient people in their way, mostly red ones.

So only liberals killed Indians. Good luck proving that.
Pericles
2/27/08
2:17 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]361380[/snapback]


You're so touchy feely. wink.gif



And I thought you were a bit brighter.

So now we learned a bit more about each other.

Have a great day, and I really, really mean it. rolleyes.gif
Lysol54
2/27/08
2:45 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]361380[/snapback]


So only liberals killed Indians. Good luck proving that.




I guess Mel and Pericles have been chatting alittle too much. They just like to make stuff up now. Come on Mel lets see some facts about that. I'm waiting.

cyberscribbler
2/27/08
2:49 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 02:17 PM) [snapback]361384[/snapback]

Have a great day, and I really, really mean it. rolleyes.gif

God Bless everyone. No Exceptions.


MelMedian
2/27/08
4:02 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]361380[/snapback]

So only liberals killed Indians. Good luck proving that.




Well, you see...liberals had to leave England because they were tired of all their BS. When they got to here, they thought they were in India and since they were liberal and can't admit mistakes - we still call them "Indians". Then, when they realized how inconvenient these red people were to them, they decided that it would be OK to commit genocide and take over their land.



Boy, how things change.

cyberscribbler
2/27/08
4:06 PM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 04:02 PM) [snapback]361430[/snapback]
can't admit mistakes
Guess that makes you a liberal then.

laugh.gif
Lysol54
2/27/08
4:35 PM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 05:02 PM) [snapback]361430[/snapback]




Well, you see...liberals had to leave England because they were tired of all their BS. When they got to here, they thought they were in India and since they were liberal and can't admit mistakes - we still call them "Indians". Then, when they realized how inconvenient these red people were to them, they decided that it would be OK to commit genocide and take over their land.



Boy, how things change.





Wow if that isn't one of the most ignorant things I've read in awhile Wow those Repubs are getting dumber and dumber every year. I guess 8 years of Bush makes it ok to be a moron?? Hey Mel, go read up on your history alittle more before you just start rewriting it. And i'm still waiting for you to post some "facts" about all this.
justplainjoe
2/27/08
4:38 PM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 05:02 PM) [snapback]361430[/snapback]




Well, you see...liberals had to leave England because they were tired of all their BS. When they got to here, they thought they were in India and since they were liberal and can't admit mistakes - we still call them "Indians". Then, when they realized how inconvenient these red people were to them, they decided that it would be OK to commit genocide and take over their land.



Boy, how things change.



uhhh mel...columbus left spain not england.

yeah rush limbaugh and dick cheney loved america so much they sent other kids to die in vietnam while they hid behind the american flag at home.

some patriots.LOL

by the way john kerry was in vietnam. ain't it funny hew hate radio convinced stupid americans that rush the draft dodger is more patriotic than john kerry who served honorably in vietnam.

i mean is that stupidity or what? laugh.gif



MelMedian
2/27/08
4:51 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 27 2008, 05:06 PM) [snapback]361431[/snapback]
Guess that makes you a liberal then.

laugh.gif




I guess that makes you a conservative.

ArtVandolay
2/27/08
4:58 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 01:32 PM) [snapback]361353[/snapback]


trite jingoistic magnet on your SUV.

your hand that is placed over your heart as you murmur the Pledge of Allegiance

Displays of patriotism become fodder for insults?

Keep demonstrating the validity of my point.

I assume that no American flag flys from your front porch. That would be both jingoistic and tacky. Wouldn't it? And an embarassment with the neighbors as well?

Perhaps if just one of you from the vast patriotic left could give a concrete example from your personal lives, that you truly love our country , I may give you a bit more creedence. Otherwise, it's just more of the same. Patriotism is stupid. Got it.









Mr P - They won't show patriotisim even if the lefties win November. They will find something to hate - and will eat their own as usual.

Oh yeah, they are still waiting for that First proud of their country moment in their adult life.

MelMedian
2/27/08
5:04 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Feb 27 2008, 05:38 PM) [snapback]361440[/snapback]


uhhh mel...columbus left spain not england.



Nice try, but I wasn't talking about Columbus from Spain. Spain did not found this country, for one thing.

I was talking about those who settled the first English colony in the New World. And they STILL referred to them as "Indians", presumably because they were so dumb, they thought they were still in India.
MelMedian
2/27/08
5:21 PM
john kerry who served honorably in vietnam....


[YOUTUBE]sbTyEPZBUQY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]9vYU-tW37Dc[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]F2DDg3dl0zY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]BG23D694fQQ[/youtube]



Yes, very honorably...





bigstew
2/27/08
5:31 PM
Man, no wonder he lost.
MelMedian
2/27/08
9:00 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Feb 27 2008, 06:31 PM) [snapback]361466[/snapback]
Man, no wonder he lost.




Maybe Hillary could pick him as her VP running mate?

jetscott
2/28/08
1:19 AM
simple question. If you knew of things in your work place that were wrong, and you reported them to your supervisor, would you be a bad employee?
cyberscribbler
2/28/08
9:02 AM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 04:02 PM) [snapback]361430[/snapback]
Boy, how things change.

Not really. We've seen revisionist history digests posted here many times.

It's always a hoot tearing them apart, then watching the spin-machine go into hyperdrive.
laugh.gif
BAG-17
2/28/08
9:16 AM
QUOTE(jetscott @ Feb 28 2008, 01:19 AM) [snapback]361536[/snapback]

simple question. If you knew of things in your work place that were wrong, and you reported them to your supervisor, would you be a bad employee?

Gee how do I answer this, DodgeCrew and Hope, any ideas?
They personally know how much trouble I got into trying to correct a bus safety issue at school. The raked over the coals meeting lasted about 45 minutes. You'd think safety would be #1 when dealing with children and buses. I found out saving face and playing the blame /finger pointing game was really #1 w/ some in our district. Not all thank goodness, and may their tribe increase!!
psychdoc
2/28/08
10:00 AM
Here is a good poll that shows almost every opinionated poll on Bush' approval rating. Not quite 19%, but not much better, either.



http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm



Let's keep it real, all.... Remember, you'll never change a Democrats view, just like you'll never change a Republicans view. We are what we are.

cyberscribbler
2/28/08
11:05 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 27 2008, 01:40 PM) [snapback]361361[/snapback]

Have you ever been proud of your country in your adult life?
Sure have.

Have you ever been proud of your country when a jet-fighter or battleship wasn't in the picture?




Lysol54
2/28/08
11:29 AM
QUOTE(MelMedian @ Feb 27 2008, 06:04 PM) [snapback]361455[/snapback]


Nice try, but I wasn't talking about Columbus from Spain. Spain did not found this country, for one thing.

I was talking about those who settled the first English colony in the New World. And they STILL referred to them as "Indians", presumably because they were so dumb, they thought they were still in India.




Hey Mel, why don't you go read a history book. Spain discovered North America, well if you believe that story and not the one about the Vikings but anyway, i digress. Columbus was the one that called them Indians, thinking he landed in India. Now that was in 1492, that was how much before Jamestowne? By that time they knew that it was not India, but the name stuck. So keep making things up and sounding like a moron, it is rather enjoyable, sad but enjoyable.

Pericles
2/28/08
11:34 AM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 28 2008, 12:05 PM) [snapback]361650[/snapback]
Sure have.

Have you ever been proud of your country when a jet-fighter or battleship wasn't in the picture?


Very proud when we administered help after the Indonesian Tsunami. Oh sorry, US ships and aircraft involved.

Proud when we intervened in Kosovo to stop the Serbs from mass-murdering ethnic Albanians. Oops. US aircraft involved.

Proud when fire fighters and police rushed into the World Trade Center, except for those pesky fighter jets flying overhead, which may have ruined it for some.

I feel most patriotic regarding acts of American self-sacrifice when the stakes are highest, and I make no apologies. Usually that involves airplanes, guns and ships, but not always.
Lysol54
2/28/08
11:39 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 28 2008, 12:34 PM) [snapback]361661[/snapback]


Proud when we intervened in Kosovo to stop the Serbs from mass-murdering ethnic Albanians. Oops. US aircraft involved.





Yeah i doubt you were proud of that, all you Republicans were pissing and moaning for months about that. "Clintons just doing it to get the heat off from Lewinsky, etc" Funny when its your party doing it, its suddenly ok.

cyberscribbler
2/28/08
11:47 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 28 2008, 11:34 AM) [snapback]361661[/snapback]

Proud when fire fighters and police rushed into the World Trade Center

I feel most patriotic regarding acts of American self-sacrifice ... that involves airplanes, guns and ships, but not always.


You're confusing the difference between a national tragedy (9-11) and being proud of what your country does and stands for.

I've been both proud and ashamed of our country, at times. I have enough presence of mind to be able to identify when someone is wrapping themselves in the flag to avoid accountability.
Pericles
2/28/08
11:57 AM
QUOTE(jetscott @ Feb 28 2008, 02:19 AM) [snapback]361536[/snapback]
simple question. If you knew of things in your work place that were wrong, and you reported them to your supervisor, would you be a bad employee?


As long as you're telling the truth you're doing the right thing and being a good employee.


QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 28 2008, 12:47 PM) [snapback]361669[/snapback]


You're confusing the difference between a national tragedy (9-11) and being proud of what your country does and stands for.

I've been both proud and ashamed of our country, at times. I have enough presence of mind to be able to identify when someone is wrapping themselves in the flag to avoid accountability.


No, you are interjecting your personal political ideology in a concept (love of country) that should transcend individual beliefs.

Does your wife lack presence of mind when she decides that she still loves you even though, at times she has been ashamed of your actions? Is it obvious to everyone that she's simply wrapping her feelings in your marriage certificate?

This country has made mistakes, but it's also done many great things. All in all, our greatness outweighs the mistakes. Apparently you feel differently.
cyberscribbler
2/28/08
12:09 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Feb 28 2008, 11:57 AM) [snapback]361670[/snapback]
This country has made mistakes, but it's also done many great things. All in all, our greatness outweighs the mistakes. Apparently you feel differently.


You're projecting and jumping to an illogical conclusion.


QUOTE
Does your wife lack presence of mind when she decides that she still loves you even though, at times she has been ashamed of your actions?
I can distinguish between loving my spouse and my country, as can my wife.

There you go getting mushy again. wink.gif

Lysol54
2/28/08
12:12 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Feb 28 2008, 01:09 PM) [snapback]361684[/snapback]


You're projecting and jumping to an illogical conclusion.






Oh he does that all the time. Jumps around and takes things out of context to try and prove his point.

FastEddie
2/28/08
11:10 PM
Did you know that Bill Clinton bombed 4 nations and a chinese embassy in the span of one year and a liberal barely raised their voice above "whisper"?

jetscott
2/28/08
11:34 PM
QUOTE(FastEddie @ Feb 29 2008, 12:10 AM) [snapback]361818[/snapback]
Did you know that Bill Clinton bombed 4 nations and a chinese embassy in the span of one year and a liberal barely raised their voice above "whisper"?

i thought he never did anything?
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