Polish missle crisis

February 2nd, 2008 7:12 pm · 9 comments

Sounds like the title of a joke. It’s no joke. The Russians are p*ssed - and have previously stated that they will use pre-emptive nuclear strikes if they feel they or their allies are threatened.

But what’s the big deal? I’m sure we’d have no problem if Russia wanted to put its own “missle defense system” in, say, Mexico - right?

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  9 comments  Tags: Russia

There are currently 9 comments on this blog post
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citydweller
2/2/08
8:59 PM
Gil, did you read any of the comments following the "revelation" about the "crisis"?

This one, from an astute Polish fellow, puts things in perspective:

QUOTE
It's nice that you try to keep up with important topics, but you've made a number of mistakes here.

1) You're talking like the topic just came out of the blue, while in fact it's been digested for many months if not years in the Pol-US relations.

2) Russia loves to flex its mussles and threaten countries that not long ago were their lieges. But that talk of preventive strikes is nothing but working the public opinion (especially the Russian one before their elections) and such sentences are usually uttered by some hawkish Russian generals. In actuality, the Russians have put their tone down recently. I especially encourage you to read about the latest meet-up of Russian and Polish foreign ministers - Lavrov and Sikorski. http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/17105

3) I believe the report that you're referring to was the US's own NIE, and not IAEA's.

4) The main purpose of the Polish interceptors is to protect Europe (and US only in some scenarios.) The location in Poland is justified by the most probable paths of missiles fired from Middle East (esp. Iran), and Poland's location more-or-less in mid-Europe. And the reasons for protecting Europe are two-fold:
a) because US has the obligation to protect other NATO members (and vice versa) - and the MD protects quite a few countries from long-range missile threat, and
cool.gif so that US's enemies won't blackmail States that if they can't hit US, then they'll hit their European friends.

5) The interceptors are not armed with warheads, so they make very poor offensive weapons. They use their kinetic energy to destroy enemy missiles with a high-speed collision.

6) There's no possibility that those 10 interceptors could prevent the Russians from launching a nuclear attack, as they have hundreds ,if not thousands, of missiles.
[Although there's one logical argument that many miss: if US and Russia were to wage war, then if US hit Russia with an intention to destroy their nuclear arsenal, there's a high probability that a couple of missiles would survive and be launched against US or Europe - then 10 interceptors could make a world (or millions of human beings) of difference.]

7) When graemesmith suggests that Russia has the right to be nervous about missiles being installed near their borders, then I would suggest two things:
a) Poland is a sovereign country (unlike before 1989). It has the right to invite US missiles, or Russian, or Chinese or Iranian or whatever it likes for that matter.
cool.gif If Russia can moan about missiles installed close to them, then Poland has the same right and hereby as a Polish citizen I demand that all Russian missiles are moved out of 1000 mile range from Warsaw.

8) Iran might have withheld their nuclear program, but they keep developing long-range missiles and they're not secretive about it. Why do you need a long range ballistic missile if not to deliver a high-profile load (eg. nuclear)? Would you shoot 3000 miles away with a 500lbs worth of TNT? To do what? Hope for destructing a building? These weapons aren't that precise, these are not cruise missiles. That means - Iran is not nuclear now, but they're keeping their options open and some think we should prepare for the worse.

9) And I wouldn't agree that it's a missile crisis. Russians can shout as they will, but neither can they do terribly much, nor does anyone pay that much attention. Yes, US Govt figures meet with Russians every now and then to show good will, but keep in mind that Russia is not half as powerful as it was.
And things are actually sorting out recently. Sikorski and Rice have now agreed on principles, PM Tusk will visit US soon and bring the deal even closer. And Russians will eventually say "we're not happy with what happened, but so be it."

If you wish to discuss this topic further, mail me at axure (at) wp.pl 'cuz I don't think I'm gonna visit this site very often, I just got here by accident (a Google search, to be precise.)
gsmart
2/2/08
9:40 PM
QUOTE(citydweller @ Feb 2 2008, 09:59 PM) [snapback]353750[/snapback]
Gil, did you read any of the comments following the "revelation" about the "crisis"?

This one, from an astute Polish fellow, puts things in perspective:





Yes, but the response itself raises several questions. I mean, this is obviously aimed specifically at Iran; it's one of the puzzle pieces that needs to be in place if the U.S. is to launch strikes on Iran; takes away Iran's capacity to retaliate at Europe or European nations that may support us.



Russia at this point has turned into a fairly solid backer of Iran - for the purpose of countering American hegemony, of course. But it's a fair question, isn't it - how would we respond if Russia (or heaven forbid Iran) were to install its own defensive missle shield in Mexico - or Cuba.

citydweller
2/2/08
10:22 PM
Your logic makes sense. And that's where it doesn't square off with current foreign policy decision making. My current understanding of how the Weis Haus plays the game is a) we wait for someone to blow a spitball at us and then (stupid board system I want to say |letter| "bee") we beat them repeatedly with a lead pipe while screaming "FREEDOM!!!!".

This whole "stop a tragedy before we can respond to it inappropriately" scenario has way too much finesse built into it. Makes me worry that other hands are working the clay.
usedmeat
2/3/08
12:13 AM
Gee, I thought the Monkey looked into Valdimir Putin's soul and saw a kindred spirit.

gsmart
2/3/08
1:51 AM
QUOTE(citydweller @ Feb 2 2008, 11:22 PM) [snapback]353764[/snapback]
Your logic makes sense. And that's where it doesn't square off with current foreign policy decision making. My current understanding of how the Weis Haus plays the game is a) we wait for someone to blow a spitball at us and then (stupid board system I want to say |letter| "bee") we beat them repeatedly with a lead pipe while screaming "FREEDOM!!!!".

This whole "stop a tragedy before we can respond to it inappropriately" scenario has way too much finesse built into it. Makes me worry that other hands are working the clay.


As I said before, it's a piece of the puzzle - a logical piece of the puzzle.

Look, if we're going to carry the war to Iran - which we will - we're going to have to reassure our nervous "allies" in Europe that they aren't going to take it on the chin for our belligerence. That would be the logical next step - wouldn't it?
justplainjoe
2/3/08
7:12 AM
QUOTE(usedmeat @ Feb 3 2008, 01:13 AM) [snapback]353819[/snapback]
Gee, I thought the Monkey looked into Valdimir Putin's soul and saw a kindred spirit.



he did. putin is a thug just like bush jr .



bigstew
2/3/08
11:50 AM
I love how America is always the sinister one.
usedmeat
2/3/08
12:09 PM
QUOTE
I love how America is always the sinister one.

Not America, biggie, just your Monkey and his Trainer.
hahaha
2/3/08
12:33 PM
stew, you have your own monkey?

Can he propose a budget?

Shawn thinks he can.

Pats says that is a fact!!
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