Crash of ‘08, Part II

November 29th, 2007 2:42 pm · 11 comments

Ian over at The Agonist gazes into his crystal ball:

1) Housing prices and sales will continue to decline. Expect 3 years before the bottom, as a very optimistic best case scenario.

2) Commerical real-estate will go suffer a steep decline as well.

3) Consumer demand will drop. Unemployment will rise.

4) The US will go into a recession at best, a depression at worst. Expect first stagflation (high inflation and high unemployment), both because of the increased price of imports and deliberate pump priming by the Fed, then deflation, as asset prices collapse so hard they take everything else with them. The other likely scenario is stagflation followed by hyperfinflation. Formal inflation numbers put out will become not just a joke amongst market-watchers, but amongst the actual population. Same thing with unemployment numbers.

5) The Asian economies are not going to “decouple”, they are going to have their own financial crises and recessions. Yes, this includes China.

6) China’s stock market will collapse some time next year. China will go into a recession. There will be huge amounts of violence and the Chinese government will redirect anger towards the US and Japan.

7) Multiple banks will probably go insolvent. They are simply holding too much crap paper. There will be an extreme tightening of consumer debt of all kinds, including consumer loans, credit cards and mortgages. Even people with good credit will start having difficulty getting loans.

8) Protectionism is going to get stronger. Even if Clinton, a free trader, is put in power, by the time the 2010 Congressional elections are over no “free trade” bill will be able to pass Congress and in fact actual tariffs are likely to be put in place.

9) I wouldn’t be surprised, at some point, to see capital controls put in place to stop money-flight from the US.

10) When the full extent of how bad things were hits Joe public, expect a move for reregulation of Wall Street and to reinstitute something similiar to Glass-Steagall.

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  11 comments  Tags: Economy

There are currently 11 comments on this blog post
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cyberscribbler
11/29/07
3:01 PM
The Housing Crisis: Caused by the Bush Tax Cuts
QUOTE
The origins of this credit crunch reside in the housing market. Big banks bought up a lot of sub-prime mortgages, then bundled them into portfolios that could be sold downstream as reliably income-producing assets. Thus mortgage debt was "securitized," made into something hedge funds and private equity firms, and even stodgy mutual funds, could buy into as an investment, not as a side bet. When the housing market flattened out (prices and construction began to fall & foreclosure rates rose) over the last two years—even with interest rates relatively steady—this mortgage debt suddenly looked dubious.

The bubble burst, in short, when everybody realized that the long-term inflation of residential real estate prices, which started about a decade ago, was over, maybe even in Manhattan.
Why did this huge investment in subprime mortgages take place, and why should dismal forecasts on the housing/mortgage market affect all others? The short answer to the first question is George W. Bush's tax cuts

The rationale for these cuts came from the supply-siders - Investment, productivity, and employment will increase if you augment the incomes of those who do the saving and investing. These already wealthy folks will acquire a new monetary incentive to invest in goods production if you raise their disposable incomes by cutting their taxes. That investment will in turn produce larger payrolls and more taxable incomes, thus canceling the revenue-reducing effect of the original tax cuts.

Then as now, these supply-side arguments have two defects. First, the history of the 20th century is the record of increasing productivity and output as functions of declining net investment. Economic growth doesn't require greater investment after 1919, in other words, so it certainly doesn't need higher profits or executive incomes. In fact, any shift of income shares away from labor and toward capital—any shift away from consumption and toward saving or investment—will be a cause of crisis, not of growth.

For if higher profits aren't needed for investment in goods production (the "real economy"), they will force their way, as unruly surpluses, into the available speculative sites, for example into the stock market of 1926-29. Or into "high-end consumption." Or into subprime mortgage lending. Whatever.

The recent private equity mania ("leveraged buy-outs" of publicly traded companies) exemplifies these three tendencies of overwhelming capital surplus, as Ben Bernanke often said before he took up his more taciturn duties at the Fed

The stock market has not been as reliable as long-term investors and short-term scalawags alike would want. The dot.com bust still spooks everybody except me, but I'm the historian who compares it to the crash of 1901-02. And how many yachts can a rich man steer toward his own private coast of utopia? Where else to turn? To the housing/mortgage market, of course, the available speculative site where prices were surging after 1995, even after the stock market tumble of the turn of the century.

Second, tax cuts have never caused increased investment—not in the 1920s, not in the 1960s, not in the 1980s, and not in our own time. The empirical record is uniform: net investment keeps falling no matter what







justplainjoe
11/29/07
3:41 PM
here is a great article about the economic impact of bush's incompetence...



http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feature...7/12/bush200712

hahaha
11/30/07
6:20 AM
That list of items usually happen when a Democrat is about to take over the White House.

Of course, if you look back, the media told us we were in recession in 2006, but when the final numbers came in they were wrong, so they predicted it for 2007, wrong again. Think they have a slim to none chance of getting it correct for 2008, unless of course Hillary wins the election.
justplainjoe
11/30/07
6:30 AM
QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 30 2007, 07:20 AM) [snapback]339578[/snapback]
That list of items usually happen when a Democrat is about to take over the White House.

Of course, if you look back, the media told us we were in recession in 2006, but when the final numbers came in they were wrong, so they predicted it for 2007, wrong again. Think they have a slim to none chance of getting it correct for 2008, unless of course Hillary wins the election.


uhhhh if you recall bush jr was running in 2000 on the economic platform of a comming recession, remember?

now after bush borrowed trillions from red china and saudi arabia, after expanding the size of gumamint, you are poised to blame the democrats?

what was it youse guys used to say?

oh yeah "take responsibilty."LOL

we'll get your recession and the housing bubble burst and the economy is headed downward.

but like everything else jr did he mucked it up. it was supposed to happen next year so youse guys could blame someone else.



hahaha
11/30/07
6:34 AM
Revised numbers back in 2000 showed the recession started in Clinton's term. Guess you like to forget the little piece of history.

However, when you think positive from within, like you preach about medicine, then good times will continue. All this negative talk, just leads to negative results. laugh.gif
cyberscribbler
11/30/07
8:36 AM
QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 30 2007, 06:34 AM) [snapback]339581[/snapback]
All this negative talk, just leads to negative results.
So the sub-prime mortgage crisis is just bad karma. laugh.gif
Hold on tight over the next year, the accountability crowd aren't very good accountants.
johnq
11/30/07
8:55 AM
I guess since we didn't have a terrorist attack in September, and the S&P 500 did not fall by 50% in September we need another disaster to loom on the horizon. Smart move this time, guys, giving yourself the entire year instead of just one month.

How many of you are actually going to put your money where your mouths are?

cyberscribbler
11/30/07
10:49 AM
QUOTE(johnq @ Nov 30 2007, 08:55 AM) [snapback]339608[/snapback]
How many of you are actually going to put your money where your mouths are?
Assuming your money isn't in GM, Ford, Winnabego, The Housing Market, K-Mart, Sears, The Jewelry industry, and just about every industry besides supply side oil at this point.
unsure.gif
Ask people in the lower quitiles how supply side economics has fared for them.
[attachmentid=1396]


Daisy Lee Myers
11/30/07
10:57 AM
or RIMM, OR APPLE OR GOOGLE!
usedmeat
11/30/07
11:07 AM
QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 30 2007, 06:34 AM) [snapback]339581[/snapback]
Revised numbers * back in 2000 showed the recession started in Clinton's term. Guess you like to forget the little piece of history.

However, when you think positive from within, like you preach about medicine, then good times will continue. All this negative talk, just leads to negative results. laugh.gif


Only if you go by republican Mayberry economists. Real economists from real universities, not the kind that advertize on matchbook covers, peg the recession as staring after The Monkey was installed by his republican cronies on the SCOTUS.

*There's nothing republicans won't revise, is there? laugh.gif
grieker
11/30/07
12:34 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 29 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]339492[/snapback]
here is a great article about the economic impact of bush's incompetence...
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feature...7/12/bush200712



I suppose you oppose the fair tax ( http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer ) .

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