Wouldn’t you arm yourself?
November 19th, 2007 1:27 pm · 52 comments
I’ve been making this argument for years. Glenn Greenwald boils it down:
We continuously hear about how grave a problem is the Iranian nuclear program. It never seems to occur to the likes of Tom Friedman that — just as one might be motivated to buy a gun if one’s neighborhood were infested with roving crime gangs — countries decide that it might be rational for them to acquire nuclear weapons given that the world’s superpower is run by warmongering crazies such as Friedman, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Mike O’Hanlon and Fred Kagan. Deranged neoconservative militarism isn’t the solution to nuclear proliferation; it’s a cause.
Absolutely. To whatever extent Iran was working on getting a nuke before we declared them a charter member of the “Axis of Evil” and invaded their neighbor - don’t you think they likely stepped up work in the wake of that?
If you were in charge of Iran - isn’t that exactly what you would have done?
It astonishes me that neoconservatives can be so flat-out foolish to believe that adversaries are going to tremble before our might, drop their weapons and beg for mercy when we rattle our big ol’ American saber. It’s not the way the world works; but neoconservatism, I suppose, is all about circumventing the way the world works.
As an acquaintance of mine is fond of saying - how’s that working out?
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Tags: War in Iran · Wingers · War on terror · War in Iraq
There are currently 52 comments on this blog postView Topic | Comment on this blogdodgecrew 11/19/07 2:03 PM | In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference between a person that buys a gun for the personal protection of his family due to the crime problem that they are facing, and a person that decided to go out and buy a gun with the thinking that they are going to wipe out their crime problem by utilizing their weapon to take out each of the criminals that affect their neighborhood........ |
littledutchboy 11/19/07 2:25 PM | QUOTE decide that it might be rational for them to acquire nuclear weapons given that the world's superpower is run by warmongering crazies such as Friedman, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Mike O'Hanlon and Fred Kagan. Deranged neoconservative militarism isn't the solution to nuclear proliferation; it's a cause.
Well that's one way to look at the situation…..if you happen to be a retard like Gill not so smart - Smart!
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[size="3"]The dude should just give it up…..his adopted ideas are so far out there any further and they would come around and meet himself.
PS: they could just wait until the white house is run by Demos ……DAH
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Lysol54 11/19/07 2:34 PM | QUOTE(littledutchboy @ Nov 19 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]337545[/snapback]
Well that's one way to look at the situation…..if you happen to be a retard like Gill not so smart - Smart!
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The dude should just give it up…..his adopted ideas are so far out there any further and they would come around and meet himself.
[size="3"]PS: they could just wait until the white house is run by Demos ……DAH
LDB, It would be nice if you actually made some sense in one of your posts. Your making your self look like the an A#$. Not that i expected anything more, just trying to get you to try alittle harder.
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justplainjoe 11/19/07 3:02 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 19 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]337540[/snapback] In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference between a person that buys a gun for the personal protection of his family due to the crime problem that they are facing, and a person that decided to go out and buy a gun with the thinking that they are going to wipe out their crime problem by utilizing their weapon to take out each of the criminals that affect their neighborhood........
and how would iran with 1 or 2 nukes wipeout all it's neighbors who have dozens?
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dodgecrew 11/19/07 3:11 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 19 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]337559[/snapback] and how would iran with 1 or 2 nukes wipeout all it's neighbors who have dozens? By pushing a button. Any other questions??? |
solitary 11/19/07 3:14 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 19 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]337559[/snapback] and how would iran with 1 or 2 nukes wipeout all it's neighbors who have dozens? I take it you're not familiar with the concept of mutually assured distruction?
Gil, your memory is too short, the world has been trying to keep Iran from getting serious armaments for decades. But you might have argued at the time that Pol-Pot would have been a good nuclear arms neighbor to the South Pacific
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justplainjoe 11/19/07 3:48 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 19 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]337565[/snapback] By pushing a button. Any other questions???
yeah how would that wipe out all it's neighbors? oh and here is a map of iran and it's neighbors. you may wanna look at it before claiming 1 or 2 nukes would wipe out it's neighbors. hope this helps...
http://graphicmaps.com/webimage/countrys/asia/ir.htm
QUOTE(solitary @ Nov 19 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]337567[/snapback] I take it you're not familiar with the concept of mutually assured distruction?
yes i am. isn't that why iran wants a nuke so that it's neighbors will be deterred from nuking them? |
solitary 11/19/07 4:05 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 19 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]337576[/snapback] oh and here is a map of iran and it's neighbors. you may wanna look at it before claiming 1 or 2 nukes would wipe out it's neighbors. hope this helps... http://graphicmaps.com/webimage/countrys/asia/ir.htm Nukes can make one hell of a mess, especially if you consider the very ancient technology used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That is minor by comparison to what's capable today. You don't need to wipe them out, just kill a few million with as dodgecrew pointed out, "the push of a button".
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 19 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]337576[/snapback] yes i am. isn't that why iran wants a nuke so that it's neighbors will be deterred from nuking them? I'm not the one who asked this question: QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 19 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]337559[/snapback] and how would iran with 1 or 2 nukes wipeout all it's neighbors who have dozens? |
gsmart 11/19/07 6:52 PM | QUOTE(solitary @ Nov 19 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]337567[/snapback] I take it you're not familiar with the concept of mutually assured distruction?
And how many nukes does Israel have again?
Right - that would be an estimated 60-80, eight years ago.
So: Iran gets one. Israel has 60-80.
Equivalence? In the mind of the neoconservative, yes.
But beyond that, as we've argued before: You are saying that the moment Iran gets a nuke, Iran is going to use the nuke?
That the country of Iran will act as one big suicide bomber, ensuring it's total annihilation by Israel and the U.S. and basically the rest of the world, which would sign off on it if Iran struck first?
Again: The neoconservative says yes.
The neoconservative says yes because the neoconservative approach is to stoke the maximum amount of fear at all time, to keep the domestic population in a near state of fever pitch, immune to reason, unable to look at the facts on the ground and realize that by any metric we or they might choose, Iran is a military pipsqueak compared to the United States - and to Israel.
Iran wants nukes for one reason: To deter an attack by the U.S. But the neoconservative must lie and pretend that Iran will use the nukes the moment they get them in an offensive capability.
The neoconservative thinks this lie creates a stronger America. What it does is weaken America - in exactly the way Greenwald notes. |
palmer 11/19/07 7:40 PM | QUOTE And how many nukes does Israel have again? Right - that would be an estimated 60-80, eight years ago.
I do not believe that Israel having nukes has anything to do with the debate.
Irans quest for nuke-u-lur weaponry may be because Israel has them, but, Israel has not used them as a tool of intimidation and has proven restraint in using them when some say they might have had the right to use them...Scuds, Gulf War I.
I remember sitting in Israel in 1991 when Scud launches were detected. I thought, "here it goes, WWIII". I was surprised and amazed at Israels restraint at that time.
Imagine 15 years ago if Iraq had nukes...they would have used them. This is the concern with Iran. I do not believe that Iran would use them 'once they had offensive capability'. I do believe they would use them to bully the neighborhood.
I in no way favor attacking Iran and have written my congressman about it. But, I also do not think they should be permitted to have nukes.
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hahaha 11/19/07 7:50 PM | QUOTE Iran wants nukes for one reason: To deter an attack by the U.S. Then why don't they state that reason instead of lying and attempting to cover it up?
QUOTE You are saying that the moment Iran gets a nuke, Iran is going to use the nuke? One could easily assume that after they make comments that state they want to wipe Israel off the map.
QUOTE I remember sitting in Israel in 1991 when Scud launches were detected. I thought, "here it goes, WWIII". I was surprised and amazed at Israels restraint at that time. I recall the U.S. having to do some serious talking (and probably some serious promises) to keep Israel restrained at the time. |
palmer 11/19/07 8:10 PM | QUOTE I recall the U.S. having to do some serious talking (and probably some serious promises) to keep Israel restrained at the time.
I am sure that was the case. I know on the ground there was a lot of concern. Most of the IDF members I was with were commenting and hoping for restraint.
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dodgecrew 11/19/07 8:36 PM | QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 19 2007, 07:50 PM) [snapback]337608[/snapback] One could easily assume that after they make comments that state they want to wipe Israel off the map. I completely agree, hence the reason for my original comment. I cannot understand the mentality of allowing anyone that has made these type of statements to acquire the means to do so. Maybe it is just me....... |
citydweller 11/19/07 9:36 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 19 2007, 08:36 PM) [snapback]337611[/snapback] I completely agree, hence the reason for my original comment. I cannot understand the mentality of allowing anyone that has made these type of statements to acquire the means to do so. Maybe it is just me.......
I have to agree. This is where Gil's "protecting the family from neighborhood danger" kinda falls apart.
I mean, I'm the last guy to say that someone with a family shouldn't own a gun if there are alot of mean thugs in big loud cars (read: warships) cruising around in your hood and beating up the neighbors....
.... unless you happen to be the neighbor that the rest of your hood looks at sideways with a little fear to begin with because you have a bad habit of shuffling down the street mumbling crazy stuff like "Well SURE they did it! I know it, EVERYONE knows it dammit.... gonna come a day when THEY'LL see by golly.... never shoulda let him say that without killing him anyway and now it' just ALL gonta hell in handbasket..... damn gays started it anyway and what does THAT tell ya HUH? Not gonna stand for it I tell ya they're ALL gonna understand when I'M done by gosh..."
Nah, you don't let that guy have a gun, ever.  |
dodgecrew 11/19/07 9:52 PM | QUOTE(gsmart @ Nov 19 2007, 06:52 PM) [snapback]337603[/snapback] The neoconservative says yes because the neoconservative approach is to stoke the maximum amount of fear at all time, to keep the domestic population in a near state of fever pitch, immune to reason, unable to look at the facts on the ground and realize that by any metric we or they might choose, Iran is a military pipsqueak compared to the United States - and to Israel.
Iran wants nukes for one reason: To deter an attack by the U.S. But the neoconservative must lie and pretend that Iran will use the nukes the moment they get them in an offensive capability. Sorry, Gil. These statements cannot be further from the truth. You seem to have this mentality of looking at life from a perspective of liberal verses conservative. You seem to forget about history, and might I add recent history. On 9/11, we lost over 3000 people. They were not all conservatives. Nor were they liberals. Time and time again, since we have been fighting in Iraq, we have witnessed a mentality of people that are trying to kill as many as possible. They do not care about any one's political affiliation. They are hard pressed to do just what was stated by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.....
"Iran's conservative new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said Wednesday that Israel must be "wiped off the map"......
This quote was reported on October 27, 2005....
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php
We are dealing with a people who want to destroy people. It does not matter exactly why. You can blame it on whatever you want.......Bush, Cheney, Clinton, whoever. The fact is....they want to kill. That being the case, if you would have the ability to keep a group with this mind set, free of nuclear weapons.......why would you not??? As far as the "military pipsqueak" comment....even "pipsqueaks" can do damage to a military might like the US. Imagine how many men and women we would have lost in the last 5 years if these "pipsqueaks" would have had nukes.........
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Robotspyder 11/19/07 10:19 PM | Interesting take. Not to far from some of my own ideas. I can't blame Iran if they want nukes. If I were them I'd want every nuke I could carry!
Say what you like and I'll not be on my soap box long .....
The fact stands that Iran like all other nations that have nuke plants etc. allow them to be inspected. The US and Iran included. However there is a nation in the Middle East that does not allow any inspections of their nukes or their nuke plants. And that nation is Israel.
So if there would be just one reason that I would want to arm myself with nukes. There's a bully down the block ( Israel ) who chooses not to play by the same rules as the rest of mankind ..... Give me nukes!!! I have the right to defend myself and do so on par with everyone else!  |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 3:19 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 19 2007, 09:36 PM) [snapback]337611[/snapback] I completely agree, hence the reason for my original comment. I cannot understand the mentality of allowing anyone that has made these type of statements to acquire the means to do so. Maybe it is just me.......
it is you. you are not looking at things objectively. you forget america overthrew an elected govt in iran and installed a dictator that torured the people and looted their wealth.
all because the elected govt. wanted to nationalize their oil.
now you may be ignorant of history and what our government has done but we have created a monster.
and the solution? kill everyone?
if ignorance is bliss i imagine a whole lot of people are covered in blisters.
QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 19 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]337614[/snapback]
We are dealing with a people who want to destroy people
how many people have we destroyed while you were not paying attention?
gee they hate us because we have freedom.
but we denied them freedom and gave them a dictator but we pretend we did not.
that is absurd.
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hahaha 11/20/07 5:32 AM | Damn Brits and Progressives!! |
cyberscribbler 11/20/07 8:25 AM | Does anyone remember why another pipsqueak named Pakistan went nuclear?
QUOTE(Dodgecrew) On 9/11, we lost over 3000 people. hey, Rudy, Iran had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. They even offered to help us find Taliban & Al Queda operatives in Afghanistan.
Throwing in Ahmadinijad saber rattling quotes could easily be countered with some of the same from McCain, Guiliani, Thompson, etc. [youtube]hAzBxFaio1I[/youtube]
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dodgecrew 11/20/07 8:45 AM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 03:19 AM) [snapback]337643[/snapback] it is you. you are not looking at things objectively. you forget america overthrew an elected govt in iran and installed a dictator that torured the people and looted their wealth. all because the elected govt. wanted to nationalize their oil. now you may be ignorant of history and what our government has done but we have created a monster. and the solution? kill everyone? if ignorance is bliss i imagine a whole lot of people are covered in blisters. Did you read the whole post?? Obviously not, or you decided to ignore it. Typical for you. This is not about whose fault it is. This is about where to go from here. I googled the phrase "wipe you off the face of the earth" and "wipe off the map". No where did I see the US make any type of comments like that. Get off your blame game high horse and concentrate on what is important.....the future. Your kids might thank you for that some day..........
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Nov 20 2007, 08:25 AM) [snapback]337659[/snapback] hey, Rudy, Iran had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. They even offered to help us find Taliban & Al Queda operatives in Afghanistan. Throwing in quotes Ahmadinijad saber rattling quotes could easily be countered with some of the same fro McCain, Guiliani, Thompson, etc. Hey Kerry. Not the same people. The same mentality.......... |
cyberscribbler 11/20/07 9:02 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]337663[/snapback] The same mentality.......... The same mentality as say Pakistan?
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justplainjoe 11/20/07 9:24 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]337663[/snapback] Did you read the whole post?? Obviously not, or you decided to ignore it. Typical for you. This is not about whose fault it is. This is about where to go from here. I googled the phrase "wipe you off the face of the earth" and "wipe off the map". No where did I see the US make any type of comments like that. Get off your blame game high horse and concentrate on what is important.....the future. Your kids might thank you for that some day..........
high horse? this from a guy who is going to heaven ?LOL
you are tooo funny dodger.
take responsibilty dodger, if you are man enough.
egads we installed a dictator who tortured his own people and you in your ignorance of what your own govt has done try to blame me for pointing it out.
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dodgecrew 11/20/07 9:26 AM | QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Nov 20 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]337669[/snapback] The same mentality as say Pakistan? Who did they claim that they wanted to wipe off the map? On another note, if you are right, then are you saying that we should let them have the nukes. Two wrongs make a right......... |
dodgecrew 11/20/07 9:31 AM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]337674[/snapback] high horse? this from a guy who is going to heaven ?LOL you are tooo funny dodger. take responsibilty dodger, if you are man enough. egads we installed a dictator who tortured his own people and you in your ignorance of what your own govt has done try to blame me for pointing it out. Nice challenge......"if you are man enough?" You are a good one, Joe!! Why don't you give nukes to the whole world, Joe. Let me know how that is going to work for you...... |
cyberscribbler 11/20/07 9:32 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]337677[/snapback] Who did they claim that they wanted to wipe off the map? India
QUOTE are you saying that we should let them have the nukes. They already have them. A Pakistani named A Q Khan supplied Iran with nuclear technology. WRT Iran, I'm saying we should listen to our allies this time and pursue direct negotiations and let the IAEA do their job.
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Lysol54 11/20/07 9:34 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]337677[/snapback] Who did they claim that they wanted to wipe off the map? On another note, if you are right, then are you saying that we should let them have the nukes. Two wrongs make a right.........
Dodge you really need to check up on your facts and your history before you go off running at the mouth. Its just making you look bad. Last time i checked Iran had nothing to do with 9/11 but you've obviously been watching a lot of Fox News. I'm pretty sure 8-9 of the highjackers were Saudis, and the Bushes and the Saudis go waaayyy back. YOu might want to read up on that alittle as well. Funny we shut down our entire airspace(no one came in or out) but let a jet load of Saudi Nationals leave the country. If we want to go after someone it should be Saudi Arabia. Oh wait never mind we just want their oil so we'll let them do whatever they want. Go read a few books on this subject and then come back and post. Maybe then you'll sound intelligent.
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justplainjoe 11/20/07 9:36 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]337679[/snapback] Nice challenge......"if you are man enough?" You are a good one, Joe!! Why don't you give nukes to the whole world, Joe. Let me know how that is going to work for you......
gee a kneejerk reaction from dodgeballs, what a surprise.
so now i want iran to have nukes because i recognize our responsiblity in the past?
you are so predictable.
here is an idea, and itr is christian so you may not recognize it..how about we apologize to the iranian people for what we did to them? how about we talk to the iranians?
how about we take responsibilty for our past?
how about admitting we were wrong?
are you man enough for that ? what happened to humilty?LOL
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cyberscribbler 11/20/07 9:51 AM | The mentality is, you're occupying my homeland/holy city
The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
QUOTE It's the occupation, not the fundamentalism So if Islamic fundamentalism is not necessarily a key variable behind these groups, what is? RP: The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
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dodgecrew 11/20/07 9:55 AM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]337684[/snapback] so now i want iran to have nukes because i recognize our responsiblity in the past? you are so predictable. here is an idea, and itr is christian so you may not recognize it..how about we apologize to the iranian people for what we did to them? how about we talk to the iranians? how about we take responsibilty for our past? how about admitting we were wrong? are you man enough for that ? what happened to humilty?LOL Maybe the problem that I have with you Joe, is that I see a lot of complaining on your part, but not much in the way of solutions.......
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Nov 20 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]337687[/snapback] The mentality is, you're occupying my homeland/holy city So what do you think should be done about the situation?? |
Lysol54 11/20/07 10:00 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]337688[/snapback] Maybe the problem that I have with you Joe, is that I see a lot of complaining on your part, but not much in the way of solutions.......
So what do you think should be done about the situation??
Cuz your always full of solutions there dodge. Give me a break.
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cyberscribbler 11/20/07 10:01 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]337688[/snapback] So what do you think should be done about the situation?? WRT Iran, I'm saying we should listen to our allies this time and pursue direct negotiations coupled with economic sanctions and at the same time, let the IAEA do their job. |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 10:02 AM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]337688[/snapback] Maybe the problem that I have with you Joe, is that I see a lot of complaining on your part, but not much in the way of solutions.......
and your solution is war?i gave some solid solutions, based on honesty and humility. remember?that's what jesus would do but then what has he to do with ye?LOL
and yeah i will complain about war and injustice . as a self professed christian why does that bother you so much?
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hahaha 11/20/07 10:10 AM | QUOTE let the IAEA do their job Because they have such an excellent track record. |
cyberscribbler 11/20/07 10:18 AM | QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 20 2007, 10:10 AM) [snapback]337696[/snapback] Because they have such an excellent track record. Compared to the Bush admin. track record WRT post hostilities rebuilding?
Nation building on-the-fly
Show us the funding 1st, before troops are committed.
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hahaha 11/20/07 10:29 AM | Actually, in the security of our nation..... good track record.
Fiscal responsibility..... not so good track record. |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 10:38 AM | QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 20 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]337708[/snapback] Actually, in the security of our nation..... good track record.
Fiscal responsibility..... not so good track record.
bush's incredible fiscal incompetence is the biggest threat to our national security, not the millions of terrorists his hairbrained policies have created.
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gsmart 11/20/07 11:16 AM | QUOTE(hahaha @ Nov 20 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]337708[/snapback] Actually, in the security of our nation..... good track record.
Really. But then you must say the same thing about Clinton, beacuse between tthe 1993 WTC bombing and the end of his term there was no Islamic terrorism on our soil.
Yet the right argues the exact opposite - that 9/11, in fact, was the fault of the Clinton administration, which ignored or minimized long-term threats.
Could that be the same thing happening now? Could the war in Iraq have long-term consequences - birthing, perhaps, the next generation of terrorists, providing for them (at U.S. taxpayers expense!) a training ground where they might learn their trade?
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hahaha 11/20/07 12:06 PM | I'll agree that Clinton had a good track record.
9/11 was under Bush's watch so obviously it is his responsibility.
Have you heard any news about Iraq lately? Amazing how things have become quiet. Quite a few people on these boards predicted quite the opposite. You will always have an initial surge of the radicals. Then things calm down. According to joe we have slaughtered millions of them, so must not be a ton of the extremists left. Hopefully the ones with brains started to use them and the ones without I am sure we will hear from again. Hopefully like those in England that are not quite smart enough to pull it off.
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dodgecrew 11/20/07 12:08 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]337693[/snapback] and your solution is war?i gave some solid solutions, based on honesty and humility. remember?that's what jesus would do but then what has he to do with ye?LOL and yeah i will complain about war and injustice . as a self professed christian why does that bother you so much? My opinion is that we should not just hand them nukes and tell them to have a good day. That is my solution. As far as religion, do not even go there. Your explanations of what you believe are so screwed up, it is not even worth talking about. Every time we do, you come up with some sort of "it's within" comment. So do not even waste the typing.......... |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 12:42 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]337747[/snapback] As far as religion, do not even go there. Your explanations of what you believe are so screwed up, it is not even worth talking about. Every time we do, you come up with some sort of "it's within" comment. So do not even waste the typing..........
jesus said it is within, so take it up with him.oh that's right you only believe in him , you just don't believe him.LOL
as far as being screwed up which one of us claims that he is going to heaven because god love him so much and he is so good, and everyone else is going to be tortured in hell forever ?
that is right up there with the boogie man and santy claus.LOL hey mental illness is within as well.LOL |
dodgecrew 11/20/07 12:48 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]337770[/snapback] as far as being screwed up which one of us claims that he is going to heaven because god love him so much and i am so good, and everyone else is going to be tortured in hell forever ? Not me......I am going to Heaven because of God's love towards me, not because I am good. Try to stick to the topic........ |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 1:00 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 01:48 PM) [snapback]337780[/snapback] Not me......I am going to Heaven because of God's love towards me, not because I am good. Try to stick to the topic........
right...god loves you so much and he really hates everyone else so he is gonna torture them in hell forever.
by any chance were you raised next to three mile island?
just curious.LOL
gotta love the smothers brotheresque "god loves me more than you" routine.LOL as for the topic, what to do with iran, people like you in your arrogance think the iranians will all go to hell anyway so their lives are worthless and you choose war over peace, death and destruction over life because "god loves you" so much. |
dodgecrew 11/20/07 1:07 PM | Tell you what , Joe....you seem to not want to give up on this. Start a new thread, and we will continue this there. Otherwise, stop hi jacking the thread. Keep it on topic........ |
Lysol54 11/20/07 1:10 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 02:07 PM) [snapback]337788[/snapback] Tell you what , Joe....you seem to not want to give up on this. Start a new thread, and we will continue this there. Otherwise, stop hi jacking the thread. Keep it on topic........
Hey dodge just curious who died and made you the moderator?? Your not one to really stay on track there either bud.
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justplainjoe 11/20/07 1:15 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 02:07 PM) [snapback]337788[/snapback] Tell you what , Joe....you seem to not want to give up on this. Start a new thread, and we will continue this there. Otherwise, stop hi jacking the thread. Keep it on topic........
so what is your solution to the iranian problem?
as for hijacking how is applying the words of jesus when discussing war hijacking?
i would think christians would be against war, sorry to offend you by bringing up what jesus said.LOL
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Nov 20 2007, 02:10 PM) [snapback]337791[/snapback]
Hey dodge just curious who died and made you the moderator?? Your not one to really stay on track there either bud.
lysol there are certain types of christians who relly get pist when you bring up what jesus said to prove them wrong.
besides he is going to heaven.LOL
after he dies of course.LOL
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hahaha 11/20/07 1:44 PM | Maybe we should come up with an Iran/American Talkback and let the leaders duke it out online. |
dodgecrew 11/20/07 1:56 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]337792[/snapback] so what is your solution to the iranian problem? as for hijacking how is applying the words of jesus when discussing war hijacking? i would think christians would be against war, sorry to offend you by bringing up what jesus said.LOL My solution would not include giving them nuclear weapons. It just does not seem like the logical solution. As far as the hi jack comment......I am trying to be considerate to others that might not want to read all of the religious stuff....... |
justplainjoe 11/20/07 2:05 PM | QUOTE(dodgecrew @ Nov 20 2007, 02:56 PM) [snapback]337826[/snapback] My solution would not include giving them nuclear weapons. It just does not seem like the logical solution. As far as the hi jack comment......I am trying to be considerate to others that might not want to read all of the religious stuff.......
at least we will be talking with them again, and that is a good thing...
http://ap.lancasteronline.com/4/us_iran_iraq
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dodgecrew 11/20/07 2:38 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 02:05 PM) [snapback]337829[/snapback] at least we will be talking with them again, and that is a good thing... I completely agree with this...... |
Alyosha 11/20/07 2:51 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Nov 20 2007, 04:19 AM) [snapback]337643[/snapback]
it is you. you are not looking at things objectively. you forget america overthrew an elected govt in iran and installed a dictator that torured the people and looted their wealth.
all because the elected govt. wanted to nationalize their oil.
now you may be ignorant of history and what our government has done but we have created a monster.
and the solution? kill everyone?
if ignorance is bliss i imagine a whole lot of people are covered in blisters.
how many people have we destroyed while you were not paying attention?
gee they hate us because we have freedom.
but we denied them freedom and gave them a dictator but we pretend we did not.
that is absurd.
I agree with Joe. This is all Carter's fault!
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usedmeat 11/21/07 10:18 AM | Except it wasn't former president Carter that did it. |
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