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Thursday, August 30th, 2007...10:11 am

Demonizing fags = electoral winner

You might have seen that the wingers are baying for Larry Craig’s blood - or at least his Senate seat - while remaining curiously quiet about Sen. David Vitter’s little indiscretions. Aside from the fact that if Vitter resigned a Democratic governor would get to appoint his replacement - and Craig can safely be thrown to the wolves because Idaho has a Republican governor - Ross Douthat explains another aspect of the dynamic in play:

The reason that gay rights became a political issue in a way that various other frankly more important issues having to do with marriage and family life did not — particularly issues about divorce and heterosexual divorce rates and single parenthood — is that, clearly, it is easier to demonize gay people. And it is much more of an electoral winner.

So Craig can be tossed under the bus because he’s maybe a queer. Vitter too may be sticking it where it doesn’t belong. But at least he’s doing it in a nice, hetero way.

Update: Greenwald nails it:

The only kind of “morality” that this movement knows or embraces is politically exploitative, cost-free morality. That is why the national Republican Party rails endlessly against homosexuality and is virtually mute about divorce and adultery: because anti-gay moralism costs virtually all of its supporters nothing (since that is a moral prohibition that does not constrain them), while heterosexual moral deviations — from divorce to adultery to sex outside of marriage — are rampant among the Values Voters faithful and thus removed from the realm of condemnation. Hence we have scads of people sitting around opposing same-sex marriage because of their professed belief in “Traditional Marriage” while their “third husbands” and multiple step-children and live-in girlfriends sit next to them on the couch.

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There are currently 53 comments on this blog post
View Topic | Comment on this blog
Goldilocks
8/30/07
10:30 AM
Craig and Vitter should both do the right thing and resign. However, they may be taking their cues from the example of a former preznut, who didn’t resign after being caught with his pant down (pun intended). Maybe it was because it wasn’t in a restroom or with a prostitute, that changed the landscape of that preznut’s indiscretions.



Lysol54
8/30/07
10:39 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]317056[/snapback]
Craig and Vitter should both do the right thing and resign. However, they may be taking their cues from the example of a former preznut, who didn't resign after being caught with his pant down (pun intended). Maybe it was because it wasn't in a restroom or with a prostitute, that changed the landscape of that preznut's indiscretions.







Yeah there ya go, compare someting consensual with something that was going to be paid for? Come on goldi, clinton was wrong in what he did, but it was consenual on both sides. It wasn't prostitution. There is a differance. This guy rails against gays left and right and then goes off and wants a BJ in a mens bathroom. Clinton never preached faithfulness then did cheated on his wife. Criag is a hypocrite. If your gay, then come out as gay and go on your way, don't vilify it in public and then serectly want it. Just be truthful to yourself.

cyberscribbler
8/30/07
11:02 AM
The Bush administration is falling apart and the party is dissolving before our very eyes.
What a dispicable bunch of hypocrits and self-serving oligarchs they've turned out to be. mad.gif

Goldilocks
8/30/07
11:09 AM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Aug 30 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]317057[/snapback]

Yeah there ya go, compare someting consensual with something that was going to be paid for? Come on goldi, clinton was wrong in what he did, but it was consenual on both sides. It wasn't prostitution. There is a differance. This guy rails against gays left and right and then goes off and wants a BJ in a mens bathroom. Clinton never preached faithfulness then did cheated on his wife. Criag is a hypocrite. If your gay, then come out as gay and go on your way, don't vilify it in public and then serectly want it. Just be truthful to yourself.


You are right that Craig probably is a hypocrite, same as Vitter and Clinton were.

As for consensual, Vitter with a prostitute was consensual. If Craig wouldn't have been propositioning a undercover cop, but some other guy, and the two were to engage in sex, that would have been consensual as well.

Inappropriate sexual behavior is all the same, in my book, whether it is cheating on a spouse with a prostitute, or with a floozy intern. It doesn't matter what they preach, they should have resigned or should resign.

Shawn
8/30/07
11:14 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]317064[/snapback]


You are right that Craig probably is a hypocrite, same as Vitter and Clinton were.

As for consensual, Vitter with a prostitute was consensual. If Craig wouldn't have been propositioning a undercover cop, but some other guy, and the two were to engage in sex, that would have been consensual as well.

Inappropriate sexual behavior is all the same, in my book, whether it is cheating on a spouse with a prostitute, or with a floozy intern. It doesn't matter what they preach, they should have resigned or should resign.





Except for one little thing...one act is illegal and one isn't. Having sex in a public is illegal, regardless of sexuality. Having sex in one's office with a mistress is not illegal. Huuuuuuge difference.



Later...Shawn

Lysol54
8/30/07
11:15 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]317064[/snapback]


You are right that Craig probably is a hypocrite, same as Vitter and Clinton were.

As for consensual, Vitter with prostitute was consensual. If Craig wouldn't have been propositioning a undercover cop, but some other guy, and the two were to engage in sex, that would have been consensual as well. Clinton did something worse than Vitter, he lied to the American people and perjured himself.

Inappropriate sexual behavior is all the same, in my book, whether it is cheating on a spouse with a prostitute, or with a floozy intern. It doesn't matter what they preach, they should have resigned or should resign.





You are correct it was consensual, but having sex for money is illegal. Having sex with an of age female is not. I'm in now way saying what Clinton did was right, i'm simply saying you can't compare him to a guy soliciting gay sex for money. Its not the same. They are both wrong, but in my mind Craigs sin is much worse, not to mention illeigal. You are correct in saying innapproriate sexual behavior is the same, its all bad. But in the eyes of the law, paying for sex is illegal. Clinton was guily of bad judgment, Craig was guilty of a crime. If Clinton would have hired a prositute then it would have been a whole differant ball game. If you want to get technical, Bush lied to the American people too. At least with Clintons lies thousands of people didn't die.

Goldilocks
8/30/07
11:29 AM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Aug 30 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]317063[/snapback]

The Bush administration is falling apart and the party is dissolving before our very eyes.




I agree, although it doesn’t seem right that the Republican Party is dissolving when the Democratic Party didn’t dissolve when Clinton engaged in his shenigans. Or when that Buffoon from Massachusetts drove drunk and off a bridge, killing a beautiful young woman by a horrible drowning death.



QUOTE(Shawn @ Aug 30 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]317066[/snapback]

Except for one little thing...one act is illegal and one isn't. Having sex in a public is illegal, regardless of sexuality. Having sex in one's office with a mistress is not illegal. Huuuuuuge difference.



Later...Shawn



One minor detail, Shawn. It wasn't Clinton's office, it was the American people's office and on the American people's time. It was your office and my office and on your and my time. That is worse than a public restroom or a prostitute's room, because it is like stealing from an employer.

Shawn
8/30/07
11:30 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]317073[/snapback]

I agree, although it doesn't seem right that the Republican Party is dissolving when the Democratic Party didn't dissolve when Clinton engaged in his shenigans. Or when that Buffoon from Massachusetts drove drunk and off a bridge and killing a beautiful young woman by a horrible drowning death.




Again...Illegal VS. not-illegal is the key. Hypocracy is also playing a factor. A gay republican on the DL goes against everything the republican party stands for right now. That is why they are dissolving. Clinton was not out on his soapbox preaching to his constituents about extra-marital sex. In fact, I'm pretty well convinced that Hillary has always been fully aware of and condoned Bill's extra curricular activities.



Later...Shawn

cyberscribbler
8/30/07
11:33 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]317073[/snapback]
I agree, although it doesn't seem right that the Republican Party is dissolving when the Democratic Party didn't dissolve

Right or wrong, the party needs a diversion, quickly. They're grasping at straws. In the meantime Rove, Gonzo bailed. Bush is beating the war drum with Iran.

Anyone close to them can see the cracks in the ice, it's getting ugly quick. Invoking Monica or Teddy's car wreck is only a sign of desparation.


Shawn
8/30/07
11:34 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]317073[/snapback]

One minor detail, Shawn. It wasn't Clinton's office, it was the American people's office and on the American people's time. It was your office and my office and on your and my time. That is worse than a public restroom or a prostitute's room, because it is like stealing from an employer.




Thats just silly, and really reaching. There are no laws on the books about when and where a president can have consentual sex in the White house. What are the president's "official" hours? Who owns the President's bedroom (hint, we do).



Later...Shawn

Lysol54
8/30/07
11:34 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]317073[/snapback]



I agree, although it doesn't seem right that the Republican Party is dissolving when the Democratic Party didn't dissolve when Clinton engaged in his shenigans. Or when that Buffoon from Massachusetts drove drunk and off a bridge and killing a beautiful young woman by a horrible drowning death.






One minor detail, Shawn. It wasn't Clinton's office, it was the American people's office and on the American people's time. It was your office and my office and on your and my time. That is worse than a public restroom or a protitute's room, because it is like stealing from an employer.






Wow still bringing up Ted Kennedy, my god thats old. If you keep doing stuff like that we'll never get anywhere. What about President Bush doing loads and loads of cocaine, and the DUI, and Cheney and his two DUI's. The Repubs blasted Clinton for inhaling and those jackasses could have killed someone driving while drunk. But when Ted Kennedy does it it comes up over and over and over. The Repuplican party is collapsing because you can't keep living a lie, you can't rail against one thing and then secretly in private keep doing it. it will come back and bite you in the !profanity!



And how was Clinton stealing from an employer. We all said what he did wasn't right. We are saying what Craig did was illegal. Clinton didn't do anything illegal. Its his house, thats where he lived? How is that worse than an airport bathroom or a brothal?
Goldilocks
8/30/07
12:01 PM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Aug 30 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]317078[/snapback]




And how was Clinton stealing from an employer. We all said what he did wasn't right. We are saying what Craig did was illegal. Clinton didn't do anything illegal. Its his house, thats where he lived? How is that worse than an airport bathroom or a brothal?


LOL Lysol, Clinton used a room besides the oval office for his BJ's. The oval office is in the White House and the White House is owned and operated on the tax payers of these United States. But I suppose he wasn't any worse than Kennedy having sex with Marilyn Monroe on the premises, as well. Than Bobby got a big crush on her. She appeared like she was a dumb Blonde, but both men revealed far too many government secrets to her. For that reason she had to die, the same night Bobby had been with her.

(That information according to an article from the Reader's Digest).

Many politicians are a big bunch of sleazeballs if you ask me, Republicans and Democrats alike.


harv1
8/30/07
12:04 PM
I'm going to change the subject: I just heard that the Taliban in Afghanistan just released the remaining South Korean hostages.

You guys have been talking about the republican party dissolving. If the Taliban are now strong enough in Afghanistan to be able to do this and to be able to negotiate with South Korea and the US just stood by... doesn't it seem like our entire entry into Afghanistan after 9/11 is now dissolving into a huge loss?

(Edited to add): "The oval office is in the White House and the White House is owned and operated on the tax payers of these United States."

That's interesting you should mention that, Goldi. There is a law that says that anyone who lives in federal housing and has a drug addict live with them or even VISIT is to be thrown out of their public housing. Well, Noelle Bush stayed there and she was convicted of all sorts of drug use and we didn't throw the president out of his federal housing like we did the grandmother whose granddaughter smoked crack outside her federal housing apartment. So, I guess there are 'accomodations' depending on who you are...

Shawn
8/30/07
12:12 PM
QUOTE(harv1 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]317108[/snapback]
I'm going to change the subject: I just heard that the Taliban in Afghanistan just released the remaining South Korean hostages.

You guys have been talking about the republican party dissolving. If the Taliban are now strong enough in Afghanistan to be able to do this and to be able to negotiate with South Korea and the US just stood by... doesn't it seem like our entire entry into Afghanistan after 9/11 is now dissolving into a huge loss?

(Edited to add): "The oval office is in the White House and the White House is owned and operated on the tax payers of these United States."

That's interesting you should mention that, Goldi. There is a law that says that anyone who lives in federal housing and has a drug addict live with them or even VISIT is to be thrown out of their public housing. Well, Noelle Bush stayed there and she was convicted of all sorts of drug use and we didn't throw the president out of his federal housing like we did the grandmother whose granddaughter smoked crack outside her federal housing apartment. So, I guess there are 'accomodations' depending on who you are...





Not to mention the fact that Afghanistan is going to have a record harvest of Heroin this year. The fields of which are being protected/operated by Taliban, who are also reaping the profits. How is this possible!?!? We have the strongest army in the world, and we cant take over some poppy fields?



Later...Shawn

harv1
8/30/07
12:16 PM
Shawn: I was thinking about that when I posted about the Korean hostages. The Taliban's resurgence is a prime example. During their reign of terror, they burned all the poppy fields that they could and killed people who grew them. It's one of the reasons that the US supported them with millions of dollars prior to 9/11.
Goldilocks
8/30/07
12:18 PM
QUOTE(Shawn @ Aug 30 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]317077[/snapback]

Thats just silly, and really reaching. There are no laws on the books about when and where a president can have consentual sex in the White house. What are the president's "official" hours? Who owns the President's bedroom (hint, we do).



Later...Shawn



Shawn There is a big difference between the White House private living quarters and the Oval Office. Do you generally think it a good business practice for CEO’s to have sex with their underlings in an office or its vicinity? If you do than I rest my case.

Lysol54
8/30/07
12:20 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]317102[/snapback]


LOL Lysol, Clinton used a room besides the oval office for his BJ's. The oval office is in the White House and the White House is owned and operated on the tax payers of these United States. But I suppose he wasn't any worse than Kennedy having sex with Marilyn Monroe on the premises, as well. Than Bobby got a big crush on her. She appeared like she was a dumb Blonde, but both men revealed far too many government secrets to her. For that reason she had to die, the same night Bobby had been with her.

(That information according to an article from the Reader's Digest).

Many politicians are a big bunch of sleazeballs if you ask me, Republicans and Democrats alike.








Thats all well and good but don't sit here and make it seem like the repubs are the more "moral" out of the two partys because that simply is not true. And don't start with the conspiricy theories here, cuz then we'd end up talking about how 911 was actually staged by the government. I agree both parties have their share of winners, but to say one is more moral than the other is simply not true, no matter how you try to spin it.



QUOTE(harv1 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]317117[/snapback]
Shawn: I was thinking about that when I posted about the Korean hostages. The Taliban's resurgence is a prime example. During their reign of terror, they burned all the poppy fields that they could and killed people who grew them. It's one of the reasons that the US supported them with millions of dollars prior to 9/11.




Harv, i don't think the US supported the taliban? They supported the Northern Alliance, who was fighting against the Taliban. If i remember correctly i thought they(taliban) were using the money from the fields to support their regieme

Pericles
8/30/07
12:21 PM
QUOTE(Shawn @ Aug 30 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]317066[/snapback]


Except for one little thing...one act is illegal and one isn't. Having sex in a public is illegal, regardless of sexuality. Having sex in one's office with a mistress is not illegal. Huuuuuuge difference.

Later...Shawn



I'm not excusing Senator Craig's conduct. He should resign.

Regarding Clinton however, you are wrong Shawn. It's more that just a consensual relationship.

Clinton published federal guidelines for this conduct that all federal employees were expected to follow.

Prior to and after the Lewinski saga, there were several high-ranking military officers who were punished and forced to resign because of similar conduct. One would think the Commander in Chief would at least be expected to follow the same guidelines as all other federal employees.

Also, Clinton got in trouble not for a sexual relationship, but for perjury. So under your reasoning, Scotter Libby should have been found innocent too.

It's funny how history and facts are revised to suit people's needs.
Lysol54
8/30/07
12:21 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]317119[/snapback]



Shawn There is a big difference between the White House private living quarters and the Oval Office. Do you generally think it a good business practice for CEO's to have sex with their underlings in an office or its vicinity? If you do than I rest my case.



Obviously you don't get out much into the business world Goldi, that kind of stuff happens more than you would want to believe. And like i said before Shawn and i have never said we thought what he did was right, we just said it was not illegal.

Pericles
8/30/07
12:24 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]317073[/snapback]


One minor detail, Shawn. It wasn't Clinton's office, it was the American people's office and on the American people's time. It was your office and my office and on your and my time. That is worse than a public restroom or a prostitute's room, because it is like stealing from an employer.



One big detail. Clinton committed perjury. He was impeached for committing perjury, not for having sex with a young intern.
justplainjoe
8/30/07
12:24 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]317064[/snapback]


You are right that Craig probably is a hypocrite, same as Vitter and Clinton were.

As for consensual, Vitter with a prostitute was consensual. If Craig wouldn't have been propositioning a undercover cop, but some other guy, and the two were to engage in sex, that would have been consensual as well.

Inappropriate sexual behavior is all the same, in my book, whether it is cheating on a spouse with a prostitute, or with a floozy intern. It doesn't matter what they preach, they should have resigned or should resign.



the problem with your logic is that craig and vitter held themselves up to be outstanding christians sitting in judgement.

they were more moral than clinton.

we knew what clinton was like.

they duped y'all yet again

Lysol54
8/30/07
12:25 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Aug 30 2007, 12:21 PM) [snapback]317121[/snapback]


I'm not excusing Senator Craig's conduct. He should resign.

Regarding Clinton however, you are wrong Shawn. It's more that just a consensual relationship.

Clinton published federal guidelines for this conduct that all federal employees were expected to follow.

Prior to and after the Lewinski saga, there were several high-ranking military officers who were punished and forced to resign because of similar conduct. One would think the Commander in Chief would at least be expected to follow the same guidelines as all other federal employees.

Also, Clinton got in trouble not for a sexual relationship, but for perjury. So under your reasoning, Scotter Libby should have been found innocent too.

It's funny how history and facts are revised to suit people's needs.




LOL this from a guy that supporst the current administration. They've rewritten more history in the past 8 years. And if you are refering to the tailhook scandal? That was sexual harrassment not a sexual relationship, big differance. But shawn is still correct because what Clinton did was not illegal, the guidlines were there but they were not laws. You are correct he perjured himself, but was aquitted. Quite a big differance from Libby being found guilty only to be pardoned a few days later.

Pericles
8/30/07
12:25 PM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:21 PM) [snapback]317122[/snapback]


Obviously you don't get out much into the business world Goldi, that kind of stuff happens more than you would want to believe. And like i said before Shawn and i have never said we thought what he did was right, we just said it was not illegal.



He failed to comply with his own federal guidelines for the conduct of federal officials.

He committed perjury. I think that is a crime.
justplainjoe
8/30/07
12:26 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Aug 30 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]317076[/snapback]

Right or wrong, the party needs a diversion, quickly.



how about a war crimes trial??

oh ..i guess that would call more attention to the stench of their corruption.

nevermind

Lysol54
8/30/07
12:29 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Aug 30 2007, 12:24 PM) [snapback]317125[/snapback]


One big detail. Clinton committed perjury. He was impeached for committing perjury, not for having sex with a young intern.




But the fact was Craig was soliciting sex in a bathroom which is illegal. Clinton got a BJ (which was legel) then lied about it afterwards. Big differance. And honestly you make it seem like no Republican has ever told a lie. Weapons of Mass Destruction comes to mind though.



QUOTE(Pericles @ Aug 30 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]317131[/snapback]


He failed to comply with his own federal guidelines for the conduct of federal officials.

He committed perjury. I think that is a crime.




And like i said before, i am not condoning what he did. I'm simply saying he didn't break the law by getting the BJ. Your are correct he did lie about it. But what Craig did was illegal. You cannot solict sex in public, or pay for it.

Pericles
8/30/07
12:42 PM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]317133[/snapback]


But the fact was Craig was soliciting sex in a bathroom which is illegal. Clinton got a BJ (which was legel) then lied about it afterwards. Big differance. And honestly you make it seem like no Republican has ever told a lie. Weapons of Mass Destruction comes to mind though.


Funny how some people try to differentiate between the immoral conduct of one party as opposed to the immoral conduct of another party.

They were all wrong.

But you go ahead and defend Bill Clinton. I'm sure he appreciates it.
harv1
8/30/07
12:43 PM
Shawn: I mistyped when I said that the US supported the Taliban up until 9/11 - the US 's support of the Taliban was reported in the NY Times in the 1990s. I think we may have stopped supporting them in the late 1990s.
Shawn
8/30/07
12:48 PM
QUOTE(harv1 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]317140[/snapback]
Shawn: I mistyped when I said that the US supported the Taliban up until 9/11 - the US 's support of the Taliban was reported in the NY Times in the 1990s. I think we may have stopped supporting them in the late 1990s.




Either way we're apparently supporting them now, by looking the other way in regards to their poppy fields and hostage taking. Its a tragedy.



Later...Shawn

Lysol54
8/30/07
12:51 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Aug 30 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]317139[/snapback]


Funny how some people try to differentiate between the immoral conduct of one party as opposed to the immoral conduct of another party.

They were all wrong.

But you go ahead and defend Bill Clinton. I'm sure he appreciates it.




Once again, one was ILLEGAL, whiche means against the law. The other was IMMORAL, which means not moral. There is a differance there. Killing animals is immoral to some but not to others. It is not however illegal. You are right they are both wrong but as i was saying one did an illegal thing the other an immoral thing. Argue that however you want, thats how it is.

Shawn
8/30/07
12:51 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Aug 30 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]317119[/snapback]

Shawn There is a big difference between the White House private living quarters and the Oval Office. Do you generally think it a good business practice for CEO's to have sex with their underlings in an office or its vicinity? If you do than I rest my case.




I'll ask you again. What are the official working hours of the president? And, who owns the private living quarters of the White House?



I never said it was good "business practice", or even right. I've only said that it is in no way shape or form illegal, and certainly not an act worthy of having to resign from the position.



Later...Shawn

harv1
8/30/07
12:54 PM
The devolving of our initial successes in Afghanistan really upsets me, Shawn. When they bombed those old Buddha statues back in 2001 before 9/11 and the world just stood back and let it happen was a terrible harbinger of what was to come. I was friends with an archaelogist in Phoenix at the time and we talked about that fact.

I was one of many here who supported the invasion of Afghanistan. A friend's son flew recon missions over Tora Bora in November of 2001 and was highly decorated for his actions. I supported the future salvation of the women there and was so glad that we were doing something correct in response to 9/11. It is just so so very sad that the work done there has been negated and it looks like we will lose that one too. Afghanistan was a worthy invasion for bringing bin Laden to justice, human rights for women and human rights for all repressed there.
Shawn
8/30/07
1:00 PM
QUOTE(harv1 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]317147[/snapback]
The devolving of our initial successes in Afghanistan really upsets me, Shawn. When they bombed those old Buddha statues back in 2001 before 9/11 and the world just stood back and let it happen was a terrible harbinger of what was to come. I was friends with an archaelogist in Phoenix at the time and we talked about that fact.

I was one of many here who supported the invasion of Afghanistan. A friend's son flew recon missions over Tora Bora in November of 2001 and was highly decorated for his actions. I supported the future salvation of the women there and was so glad that we were doing something correct in response to 9/11. It is just so so very sad that the work done there has been negated and it looks like we will lose that one too. Afghanistan was a worthy invasion for bringing bin Laden to justice, human rights for women and human rights for all repressed there.




I too supported it, and still do. I wish they would pull all of our troops out of Iraq and focus on Afghanistan. It seems so obvious that we should have a stronger presence in Afghanistan, I can't help but wonder what the real reason is behind letting the Taliban re-gain their hold on the country. It really seems like a no-brainer, yet we continue to look the other way there.



Later...Shawn

hahaha
8/30/07
1:14 PM
Long but good read on Osama Bin Laden and Afghanistan:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430170/site/newsweek/
usedmeat
8/31/07
12:59 AM
I love the smell of desperation on LOL. Clinton didn't violate any federal guidelines about sexual harasment that he authored. Monica Lewinski initiated the afair by flashing her thong underware at Clinton. It was never submit or be fired. Bill should have sent her packing with a note to her parents but he succumbed to temptation.

Hey, Ghouldie, lets talk about stalwart republican icon Newt Gingrich.

When his first wife was ill with cancer he was by her hospital bedside, serving her with divorce papers. Second wife fell by the wayside when Newtie took up with an office staffer (shades of Monica!!!)

Then we have Newt's sister, an avowed lesbian. Now you people (Ghouldie) like to lecture us that being gay is a choice, so my question to you is what happened in the gingrich household to make Newt's sister decide to have nothing to do with men?

Care to answer that one, anybody?

Bigmaclender2
1/1/08
10:41 AM
Everyone keeps saying that Clinton having an affair on Hillary isn't illegal it's only immoral. If they went through a divorce Billy Boy would become quite aware how illegal it is maybe not technically but he would notice a major dent in his pocket. In states where you would normally get 50% that number would decrease immensely with his affair on the record. He would probably lose it all.
Shawn
1/1/08
10:47 AM
QUOTE(Bigmaclender2 @ Jan 1 2008, 10:41 AM) [snapback]346099[/snapback]
Everyone keeps saying that Clinton having an affair on Hillary isn't illegal it's only immoral. If they went through a divorce Billy Boy would become quite aware how illegal it is maybe not technically but he would notice a major dent in his pocket. In states where you would normally get 50% that number would decrease immensely with his affair on the record. He would probably lose it all.




Assuming of course, they didn't have some kind of "arrangment", whereby she has indicated to him that she doesn't care who he sleeps with as long as he continues to further her political career. Theirs has all of the makings of a marriage of convenience.



Later...Shawn

bigstew
1/1/08
5:11 PM
Doesn't matter. Legal or illegal. If your boss caught you screwing someone in your office, especially one of your subordinates, you would be fired. And pericles is correct. Clinton dismissed military officers for the same conduct. How's that for hypocrite?
gp80mac
1/1/08
7:07 PM
War on two fronts... our entire economy is owned by socialist China.... debt growing... infrastructure crumbling...

and people are still worried about Clinton's penis?????
Lysol54
1/1/08
9:32 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jan 1 2008, 06:11 PM) [snapback]346152[/snapback]
Doesn't matter. Legal or illegal. If your boss caught you screwing someone in your office, especially one of your subordinates, you would be fired. And pericles is correct. Clinton dismissed military officers for the same conduct. How's that for hypocrite?




So rather than complain about the things our wonderful president GW is now doing your going to !profanity! and moan about something that happened almost 10 years ago?? Give me a break stew. At some point you have to let it go. I'm sure we could sit here and say what waste Reagan was too, but what does it get us? Rather than deal with the issues, you are just a typical repub mouthpiece."Well Clinton did it", so then its ok.

citydweller
1/1/08
9:35 PM
QUOTE(gp80mac @ Jan 1 2008, 07:07 PM) [snapback]346165[/snapback]

and people are still worried about Clinton's penis?????


Well I'm sure he's worrying about it laugh.gif

QUOTE
Give me a break stew. At some point you have to let it go.


Yes Stew, please let go of Clinton's penis tongue.gif
usedmeat
1/1/08
10:34 PM
Geez, I thought this thread would have been closed long already.
QUOTE
Everyone keeps saying that Clinton having an affair on Hillary isn't illegal it's only immoral. If they went through a divorce Billy Boy would become quite aware how illegal it is maybe not technically but he would notice a major dent in his pocket.
The Clintons would have had it out in a civil court not a criminal court as Craig and Vittner. Big difference.
QUOTE
Clinton dismissed military officers for the same conduct. How's that for hypocrite?
The difference is usning your position to screw someone as opposed to replying to someone's advances.
citydweller
1/2/08
12:58 AM
QUOTE(usedmeat @ Jan 1 2008, 10:34 PM) [snapback]346191[/snapback]

The difference is usning your position to screw someone as opposed to replying to someone's advances.


Did you just say the same thing twice? tongue.gif

Or did you mean "Using your position to screw someone as opposed to positioning yourself to screw someone" ?
bigstew
1/2/08
3:50 PM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Jan 1 2008, 09:32 PM) [snapback]346182[/snapback]




So rather than complain about the things our wonderful president GW is now doing your going to !profanity! and moan about something that happened almost 10 years ago?? Give me a break stew. At some point you have to let it go. I'm sure we could sit here and say what waste Reagan was too, but what does it get us? Rather than deal with the issues, you are just a typical repub mouthpiece."Well Clinton did it", so then its ok.

24 posts on this thread referring to Clinton and his "event" and you single me out like I brought it up. Go pizz up a rope if you you can't handle the truth.

QUOTE(citydweller @ Jan 1 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]346183[/snapback]


Yes Stew, please let go of Clinton's penis tongue.gif


You can pound sand too. cool.gif

Lysol54
1/2/08
4:06 PM
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jan 2 2008, 04:50 PM) [snapback]346369[/snapback]
24 posts on this thread referring to Clinton and his "event" and you single me out like I brought it up. Go pizz up a rope if you you can't handle the truth.





I singled you out cuz you were the last one to post about it. Sorry if i hurt your feelings. tongue.gif It must be suck to have skin that thin. Plust what does the truth have anything to do with it??

hahaha
1/2/08
5:54 PM
QUOTE
Plust what does the truth have anything to do with it??

Spoken like a true Clinton fan!
Bigmaclender2
2/13/08
8:40 AM
QUOTE(usedmeat @ Jan 1 2008, 11:34 PM) [snapback]346191[/snapback]
Geez, I thought this thread would have been closed long already.
The Clintons would have had it out in a civil court not a criminal court as Craig and Vittner. Big difference. The difference is usning your position to screw someone as opposed to replying to someone's advances.




Good threads never die!!!!!

Goldilocks
2/13/08
8:58 AM
Oh brother are we going to resurrect every gay thread now.

Not surprising I suppose, after all, it is the first point goal of the gay agenda as written about in the pro-homosexual book “After the Ball,".


1. "Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible." Making people so tired of the issue they would want to give them anything they want to make them shut up.


Pericles said it well in another thread……

We're granting civil union status to gays. In exchange everyone has to agree to:

1. Not use gay marriage as a political football

2. Accept civil unions - It's the best solution for all sides

3. Shut up



Lysol54
2/13/08
9:03 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Feb 13 2008, 09:58 AM) [snapback]357012[/snapback]
Oh brother are we going to resurrect every gay thread now.

Not surprising I suppose, after all, it is the first point goal of the gay agenda as written about in the pro-homosexual book "After the Ball,".


1. "Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible." Making people so tired of the issue they would want to give them anything they want to make them shut up.


Pericles said it well in another thread……

We're granting civil union status to gays. In exchange everyone has to agree to:

1. Not use gay marriage as a political football

2. Accept civil unions - It's the best solution for all sides

3. Shut up







Why don't you take #3 and apply it Goldi? There is no gay agenda, but there is a right wing christian nutjob agenda.

Goldilocks
2/13/08
9:58 AM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Feb 13 2008, 09:03 AM) [snapback]357015[/snapback]

Why don't you take #3 and apply it Goldi?



Hey, I support Civil Unions with the same perks as married people have.

QUOTE
There is no gay agenda,


We certianly see it played out all the time.




Lysol54
2/13/08
10:10 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Feb 13 2008, 10:58 AM) [snapback]357031[/snapback]


We certianly see it played out all the time.




Wanting equal rights doesn't mean they have an agenda. Now your right wing christian nutjobs on the other hand want everyone to think and be the way they are. And if they don't they don't love their country, support the terrorists or whatever other stupid label they want to put on people. Not so with gays.

Alyssarah1
2/13/08
10:11 AM
Not taking sides here one way or the other, but don't any of you think that four non-stop threads on the same topic is a bit of overkill? blink.gif
Lysol54
2/13/08
10:14 AM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 AM) [snapback]357037[/snapback]
Not taking sides here one way or the other, but don't any of you think that four non-stop threads on the same topic is a bit of overkill? blink.gif




LOL this is the thread that started it all. soap_box.gif

johnq
2/13/08
11:11 AM
QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:14 AM) [snapback]357040[/snapback]




LOL this is the thread that started it all. soap_box.gif

Kinda proves my point, no?
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