The blog vacuum

August 3rd, 2007 3:54 pm · 16 comments

Consider this a companion of sorts to the convention center post, to the idea of “the establishment” that exists right now in Lancaster County - and the one that could exist in the future, if anyone here sees that future.

I’ve always been amazed/amused that the forum where opposition to the convention center project is loudest and most insistent has been on the Lancaster Newspapers site itself. I suppose those involved in that opposition see the irony in all this - attempting to take down The Man by using The Man’s web site - but what has really astonished me is that there seems to have been little attempt to make it otherwise.

I’m talking about blogs in particular. Many of the most outspoken and in many cases well-spoken opponents of the convention center project do indeed have their own blogs - Artie See, LancoYokels, Harper and others - and as I’ve said, I’m a fan of those blogs. I read them fairly regularly, in part because I like the idea of blogs, particularly local blogs. But also because they’re pretty good. Artie See has laid out the most comprhensive case against the convention center; LancoYokels does it with just the right amount of snark; and Harper is probably the best investigative reporter in this town, period.

But the thing about these blogs, and about the other local blogs, is that posting is sporadic. A couple of times a week, maybe - at most. More regular is NewsLanc, though it, too, generally only posts a dozen or so times a week. Yet NewsLanc is probably closest to the type of blog that could exist in Lancaster County - that, if it did exist, could exercise a significant impact on the local discourse, just as blogs up there at the national level have begun to impact the national discourse.

There is a blog vacuum here, not in general, but for a specific type of blog - one that posts a dozen or so times per day, is focused relentlessly on local politics and events, one that combines the snark of LancoYokel with the investigative work of Harper. An alternative news source plus, comprehensive, all of it online - all of it interactive.

It would be, really, a local version of Daily Kos. And I’m convinced that there would be a niche for it, a market for it. The problem, of course, is that it would be a tremendous amount of work, and at the beginning at least - though maybe in perpetuity - there wouldn’t be much or any money in it. But over the long term, I’m convinced there could be money in it, and I’m convinced it would succeed - or could succeed, if it were timely, updated constantly, well-written, well-desgined. Professional. And maybe there’s the rub, as blogging tends to be more of a hobby for most people; who has the time to invest in this sort of thing, particularly if it doesn’t pay? Maybe that’s why it hasn’t been done here.

But I’m convinced it will be done, both here and in communities across the country. That’s where this trend goes, where it must go; as Josh Marshall alluded to in the post below, to the extent that citizens want change the technology provides the means by which that change might come, the means by which the status quo might be challenged. So far that challenge has been largely on the national level, but it will filter down, I’m convinced of it. It will be interesting to see who it filters down to - whether it will be one of the players already in the game here, or whether it will be someone else who sees the opportunity fluttering earthward, grabs it and runs with it. And then it could indeed be a whole new ballgame.

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  16 comments  Tags: Blogs · Lancaster

There are currently 16 comments on this blog post
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harv1
8/3/07
5:14 PM
Gil: I'm a great fan of free weeklies that do a lot of investigative work on unfolding stories. The New Times Syndicate, started in Phoenix, and recently purchased by the Village Voice, is one of the best of its kind. Phoenix New Times has broken a number of ongoing stories and afforded the 'inkspace' to investigative reporters who have won tons of awards for their investigations that have changed the course of Phoenix politics, prison reform, immigration policies etc. Right now, they have some killer articles about what's really backing up the anti-immigration rhetoric in that area right now. And it's not pretty.

Blogging and 'newsing' online are great... but I'm betting if Lancaster had had a really good weekly that would have been hammering home a lot of the machinations there, that Watt and Shand wouldn't have crumbled. I've seen a weekly paper step up and save history (and there isn't much historic in Phoenix to really save anymore).

I think there was so much more to the story of what happened to Harry Eng, what happened as to why the folks who wanted to put a casino in Lancaster and why that failed, the skinny on the board of the Historic Trust. Hammering home Tom Smithgall's lie about the delisting. etc. etc. The man who was beaten to within an inch of his life at the prison surely deserves at least a follow up mention, if not a feature story. But LNP is so embedded, it can't open these cans of worms. Wouldn't be prudent. And as a result, things that could get better don't; and guinea pigs are made into guinea pigs.

Heck, even Roger Moyer's doofus remarks about his acquisition for Sterling while dining at the HC never really got any traction there.

You've got so many really good stories going on there that get a mere nod from the daily... the deaths and dismemberments at the county prison, was there a connection between Wise's grandfather and Guarini that led to the grandson being released, the Thad Stevens home, the Montgomery House... on and on and on. So many that would really get people reading and enough inkspace to lay the cards on the table for them. I'd love to have the backing to be able to produce an independent like this. It just so boils down to 'the money.'
gsmart
8/3/07
5:17 PM
QUOTE(harv1 @ Aug 3 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]310191[/snapback]
I'd love to have the backing to be able to produce an independent like this. It just so boils down to 'the money.'





It does, but that's the bonus of doing it all online - no cost for paper or distribution, etc. Plus, it's the type of thing people can peruse at their desks, at work - as they do now, with blogs, with TalkBack, etc. And it has the benefit of being more interactive - message boards, direct response to writers and such.

charlie_crystle
8/3/07
6:22 PM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 3 2007, 05:17 PM) [snapback]310194[/snapback]




It does, but that's the bonus of doing it all online - no cost for paper or distribution, etc. Plus, it's the type of thing people can peruse at their desks, at work - as they do now, with blogs, with TalkBack, etc. And it has the benefit of being more interactive - message boards, direct response to writers and such.





12 times a day? Who has time for that.

harv1
8/3/07
6:34 PM
Gil: Regarding the weeklies, most of the good ones are freely distributed, I honestly believe that there is just something about holding that print in hand, and it being out there in those newspaper distribution boxes in all parts of the county for all people to see, take home, read once, read again, digest etc. etc. that makes good investigative journalism stick to the ribs of the reader and discomfit those who need to be discomfitted.
Artie See
8/3/07
6:55 PM
Dear Mr. Smart:

As evidenced by my virtual absence from LOL over the last several days, I do have a life (contrary to the opinion of some others). Work and family responsibilities must of course take up the vast majority of my time.

When I started www.LookingAtLancaster.com, I had verbal assurances from several other people that they would also post. None of this has ever materialized. It seems that the vast majority of people don't have the incentive or discipline necessary to post regularly. Had I known that I would be on my own, I might not have started it.

You are a reporter by profession, I am not. My writing is that of an emotional individual who tries very hard to be reasonable and rational. Some of my posts on www.LookingAtLancaster.com literally took me hours to write; I believe the first part of the "Incompetence" series took me nearly three hours.

Of course I must research most of my own material. I attend select public meetings on a regular basis, which as you know can take up a LOT of time. I've got stacks of documents and gigabytes of electronic data that I've collected as research for my posts. I've already gathered information for three or four significant posts that should have been written weeks ago, but things kept getting in the way, including a physical infirmity from which I've since fully recovered. So, I must use what free time I have to attend meetings, collect and compile information, and write posts.

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to explain; I'm certain you personally are aware of all of this already.

In my opinion, the answer to the challenge you've posted is to start a blog - preferably with an easy-to-remember URL linking to it - where a number of people would contribute. This is what I had originally intended to do with www.LookingAtLancaster.com. And I would still be happy to give others the ability to make posts by themselves. But as you know, people tend to want to do their own thing.

I appreciate your consideration and thoughtfulness. Thank you very much.
ArtVandolay
8/3/07
7:19 PM
[ Blogging and 'newsing' online are great... but I'm betting if Lancaster had had a really good weekly that would have been hammering home a lot of the machinations there, that Watt and Shand wouldn't have crumbled. I've seen a weekly paper step up and save history (and there isn't much historic in Phoenix to really save anymore).

quote]



Lancaster HAD a great weekly that WANTED to cover local politics and arts, etc in Lancaster. This little start up tried to get off the ground in the late nineties - it was put out by a local business man and his partner - they had ties to book publishing. He was a local guy and worked at LNP a long time ago. He hired a staff of great editorial and sales folk. The paper was called The Express. Until LNP

bought the name from a small outfit down south that had the rights to the name. On the Eve of the first publication, and I mean the day before the paper was to be distributed for the first time, the legal dept from LNP group sent a letter that The Express would be sued, etc, if they published. This was timed so all the $ spent on pre promotion, advertising and paper boxes around town would be spent and used. The paper renamed itself the Zephyr. But it never was able to stick - the damage was done bt LNP. They would put out a small supplement to the Saturday paper called The Express for a short while and it was crapola. It was ust a vehicle to show that LNP would publish something called The Express.



The point is this little paper would have morphed into a great website and local blogutards would be able to say whatever thay wanted. So, Gil - A little history about your bosses, probably before you made the scene here.



harv1
8/3/07
7:28 PM
Art: thank you so much for this information. I had heard about this but didn't know the full story... which is why I hadn't mentioned it.

I'm sure you realize how and why this happened. Imagine if a weekly that did investigative reporting, etc. was to get out there and challenge the status quo at such a critical moment of one of LNP's biggest investments (after the forced divestiture of their radio and TV holdings). Thanks again for posting this - it also helps to prove my point about the power of the printed weeklies. The LNP knew that too.
gsmart
8/4/07
7:42 AM
To Artie: You've put your finger on exactly why what I mused about HASN'T happened. Some of the blogs I read regularly - Glenn Greenwald or Andrew Sullivan, for example - are sponsored by larger media sites, Salon.com and The Atlantic respectively. As with me, on this site, investing the energy to blog is easy when blogging in fact is an aspect of your job, or your job period.

Otherwise, as I said, it's a long run for a relatively short slide.

But your initial idea - almost Kos-like, it sounds, in terms of more of a "community" blog - is a very good idea. The problem, as you've noted, is getting everyone to chip in.

I've personally had discussions with some TalkBackers, saying - Why don't you blog? And my sense is that it's just easier for everyone to keep doing what they're doing on TalkBack; that there's a community here already, and if they want to reach that community they feel they need to be posting their thoughts here rather than off-site. I understand that - and don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not trying to drive people AWAY from TalkBack. One of the reasons LNP decided to start blogs is that we realized there WAS a community here, but that it was being kept at arm's length, so to speak; blogs are thought of as a way to connect. Which is why I like to respond in the threads, where appropriate.

And even before that, TalkBackers HAVE had an effect on the discourse. I read it, and I know a lot of other reporters/editors here read it as well.

But my thing about Lancaster County on the whole is that ambition can pay off here. It's work and you have to take a lot of cr*p, but if you're willing to endure both, you can really carve out a niche. I do believe that's what happened with my own situation here; it wasn't as if I was elevated to this punditocracy by anyone, I just basically wanted it, saw an opening and did what I thought would work - and because it was different, because it was audacious and because it was ambitious, it DID work. Which is why I think the exact same approach would work in terms of a local blog.

As per the weekly newspaper thing: I have no knowledge of what ArtVandolay writes, I'll take it on face value - and would not be surprised in any event. I've always wondered why the Fly Magazine hasn't done more to try and become a true alternative news source (probably because publisher John Villella doesn't want to kill the goose that's laying the golden egg). But there's a situation where a publication was able to establish itself by doing something that wasn't being done particularly well. It saw a niche and filled it. So what's the difference between that and what Art wrote about? I don't know. But that one succeeded/survived and the other didn't says it's not all doomed to failure.
Kate
8/4/07
7:53 AM
QUOTE(gsmart @ Aug 4 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]310291[/snapback]

I've personally had discussions with some TalkBackers, saying - Why don't you blog? And my sense is that it's just easier for everyone to keep doing what they're doing on TalkBack; that there's a community here already, and if they want to reach that community they feel they need to be posting their thoughts here rather than off-site. I understand that, in one respect - and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to drive people AWAY from TalkBack.


Gil - you've hit the nail on the head with the above statement. wink.gif

I enjoy reading blogs from Artie See, Ron Harper, Lancoyokel, Newslanc and yes, BECKY!!! Perhaps one day soon I'll contribute to LookingatLancaster but for now I enjoy "chatting" on TalkBack.

Much can be learned and derived from participating in an online newspaper's forum. You have a variety of topics to discuss and debate. I can probably name a dozen or so posters and some reporter's I've come to know via TalkBack (I had the pleasure of meeting Hope last evening). Coincidentally, some people only know me as "Kate" to the point that I've become accustomed to being addressed as such. Participation on here is educational and entertaining.
Artie See
8/4/07
9:08 AM
Dear Mr. Smart: I accept your challenge. You may even write about this in the hardcopy newspaper if you feel it is appropriate.

I welcome any and all submissions to www.LookingAtLancaster.com, from any and all individuals. Anyone may email me submissions at: artie.see(AT)gmail.com (replace the (AT) with @). I promise to publish the submissions even if I don't agree with the writer's perspective.

To preserve some semblance of order, I need to lay down a few basic ground rules:

- The article must be about Lancaster. This is, after all, "Looking At Lancaster", which is "Dedicated to honesty, openness, and accountability in local government." Submissions should fit within this description. I reserve the right to expand this definition when appropriate; I also reserve the right to reject articles that I consider to be inappropriate. It is absolutely positively necessary for www.LookingAtLancaster.com to keep focused.

- Consider this to be the same as a "Letter to the Editor". Don't write anything you wouldn't want to see in the newspaper. And remember, what you have written will be available on the Internet indefinitely (or at least as long as Blogger doesn't delete it).

- On the other hand, pseudonyms or even anonymous submissions are acceptable. This is a blog, not a newspaper.

- Keep it clean. No profanity or personal attacks. It should be clean enough for your ten-year-old to read.

- Check your facts as best as possible. I know, I've slipped up on this myself; all I ask is that you try your best.

- Please don't quote other web sites without a link. All references to other web or hard-copy articles should be brief, and within the limits of "fair use".

- I reserve the right to edit basic spelling or grammatical errors.

- I reserve the right to not post any article I find offensive or libelous.

- I cannot be responsible for submissions trapped by a spam filter, or otherwise lost in the email.

- And although this is very unlikely, I reserve the right to limit the number of submissions by any one individual. If you're going to post more than a few times a week, you would be better off by starting your own blog for free at www.blogger.com. I'll even link to you from www.LookingAtLancaster.com.

- There are times when my life can get extremely busy. Please be patient if there is a reasonable delay until your submission is posted.

That's it. The invitation is now out there. If you've ever wanted to blog, but didn't want the headaches, here is your chance. You can write once and never again, you can contribute once in a while, or you can contribute regularly.

I've already done this in the past. I've posted some articles by Bernie Schriver that I simply do not agree with. I've already got a submission from a first-time writer in my email that I need to format and post. I would LOVE to have regular submissions by thoughtful individuals like "citydweller" or "southforthewinter".

Gil, if you feel it is appropriate to note this in your column, please feel free to. I hope to have a post similar to this one on www.LookingAtLancaster.com by later today, right now I have family responsibilities that need my attention.
palmer
8/4/07
10:26 AM
The Internet has provided a great vehicle for community disussion, debate, and varying degrees of publishing. TalkBack is a very good example of a forum where a community can freely contribute to the conversation.

What Artie refers to in his post regarding his site, lookingatlancaster, is an effort in community publishing/journalism. This form of publishing has worked in some cases (Bluffton, SC, Sewickly, PA, Bakersfield, CA) where the community is very involved in the web content, but, the topics are often not too "newsy".

The greatest challenge to launching such websites or alternative/competiting publications is what I refer to as 'news apathy'. While there can be a very vocal audience for local news topics that audience is generally very small compared to the total market audience.

For the most part, the under 45 crowd does not care too much about local news unless it has a direct effect on them. This is the largest contributor to the decline of news print consumption...not 'no time' or the Internet.

Entertainment niche is the success of Fly and they wisely stay away from 'news'.

A vehicle in competition with LNP is possible but it will not be on paper or driven by news. I guess then, it is not really competing as LNP IS paper and news as it is identified.
palmer
8/4/07
10:44 AM
The link I provided for Sewickley is incorrect. It should be: http://yoursewickley.com/


Artie See
8/4/07
10:51 AM
QUOTE(palmer @ Aug 4 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]310319[/snapback]
The Internet has provided a great vehicle for community disussion, debate, and varying degrees of publishing. TalkBack is a very good example of a forum where a community can freely contribute to the conversation.

What Artie refers to in his post regarding his site, lookingatlancaster, is an effort in community publishing/journalism. This form of publishing has worked in some cases (Bluffton, SC, Sewickly, PA, Bakersfield, CA) where the community is very involved in the web content, but, the topics are often not too "newsy".

The greatest challenge to launching such websites or alternative/competiting publications is what I refer to as 'news apathy'. While there can be a very vocal audience for local news topics that audience is generally very small compared to the market audience. For the most part, the under 45 crowd does not care too much about local news unless it has a direct effect on them. This is the largest contributor to the decline of news print consumption...not 'no time' or the Internet.

Entertainment niche is the success of Fly and they wisely stay away from 'news'.

A vehicle in competition with LNP is possible but it will not be on paper or driven by news.
Thank you.

Any web blog by definition cannot compete with the mainstream media. A "web log" is as much about opinion as it is news. And what news IS reported is by individuals, about topics they are interested in enough to research in person.

There is certainly no profit motive. Publishing costs are practically zero, although I do pay a nominal annual fee for "www.lookingatlancaster.com" (which is much easier to remember than "lookingatlancaster.blogspot.com"). Everything that has been or will be done there is strictly on a volunteer basis.

I am personally aware of how much apathy there is in government and civic affairs. There have been far too many public meetings where only one or two members of the public have attended, if any at all.

If we, the bloggers, are able to raise the social awareness of even a subset of the general public, then I will consider what we are doing to be a success.
usedmeat
8/4/07
12:03 PM
I think the last time I tried to spend any time or money in Lancaster City was an attempt to see one of the Star Wars movies at a Queen St. theater. I couldn't find any legal parking and said the heII with it. I'm sure others have had similar expieriences and it explains that apathy for local events and news.

As far as blogs go it's just too easy to post opinions on LOL.

lanzate
8/4/07
1:26 PM
QUOTE(usedmeat @ Aug 4 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]310338[/snapback]

As far as blogs go it's just too easy to post opinions on LOL.



And here lies the strength of LOL, a whole team of paid posters that can post more than a dozen times a day. Any person can usually find a topic at any given time worthy of adding their 2 cents to the discussion. As far as individual blogs go, Harper is the only one I have ever read and that is only maybe once every couple weeks or when LOL happens to quote him about something.

The strength of the internet comes from the collective work of many people. Individual blogs are the anti-internet and I find them to be kind of boring and self absorbed in personal pet peeves and special interest. Harper just happened to find a niche since investigative reporting at LOL is not encouraged.
Artie See
8/7/07
6:28 AM
QUOTE(Gil Smart)
I’ve always been amazed/amused that the forum where opposition to the convention center project is loudest and most insistent has been on the Lancaster Newspapers site itself.
I've been thinking about this comment from Gil Smart in the article that started this thread. There is one very simple reason TalkBack has been the place the discussion over taxpayer-financed hotel and convention center project has been the loudest and most insistent:

There has been no other place for the public to openly discuss this issue.

LCCCA board meetings were EXTREMELY one-sided until the $64 million 40-year taxpayer-financed bonds were sold. Lancaster City Council consistently shot down any discussion about the project. The vast majority of people who work during the day cannot attend County Commissioners' meetings. And only a small fraction of the Letters to the Editor sent in were ever published (partly because of space limitations).

Yes, we have 5th Estate, NewsLanc, LancoYokels, LIP News, Lancaster First, and even Looking At Lancaster. But none of these are widely read, and none are set up for discussion (for good reason, trolls can quickly overwhelm a site).

Lancaster Online has the ONLY widely-read user forum in Lancaster County, because it is linked to and publishes articles from the only real local general news source in Lancaster City or County. With the LCCCA hiding behind the "Sunshine Act", there are no real alternatives for members of the public to discuss the issues.
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