Nanny state to the rescue

June 26th, 2007 9:23 pm · 12 comments

The state Senate today passed a smoking ban now being criticized as too soft, too full of compromise. It should have been tougher, proponents say.

It shouldn’t have been passed at all.

I suppose as a good liberal I’m supposed to support smoking bans. But here’s an instance (one of many, actually) where I’m not liberal at all. I dislike smoking bans - not because I don’t think government has a role to play in ensuring clean air, but because smoking bans ultimately tell private business owners how they are to conduct their business. And in this case, I think that’s nonsense.

If you are going to ban smoking on the grounds of public health, do so - ban it in arenas and convention centers, places where large groups of people may gather and have a reasonable expectation of not having to endure someone blowing smoke in their face or even their general direction.

But when it comes to bars and restaurants - what business is it of the government to tell the owners of private establishments that they are not to permit patrons to smoke? That is and should remain a purely business decision, both for the owners of the establishment and his patrons. Frankly, if you don’t want to go to a place like the Brickyard because it’s too smoky - don’t go. Find another place to eat. And if enough people do that, then maybe the restaurant will get the message; maybe its owners will realize that they are losing revenue by permitting some patrons to smoke. And that they’d make more money by banning it than they are by permitting it.

At what point is it appropriate for government to insert itself into this process? How about not at all.

It is not the government’s job to protect you from secondhand smoke in a bar or restaurant you freely choose. But we have this idea that not only is it appropriate - it’s necessary. That because the restaurant I like to frequent permits smoking and I don’t like secondhand smoke, it’s not me who has the problem - it’s them. And it’s therefore appropriate for government to ride in and right that wrong by telling the restaurant owner what to do.

Republican legislators, “conservatives” from Lancaster County who support this nonsense in particular should be ashamed of themselves. This is exactly what Sen. Mary Jo White, Republican of Venango County, told the Philadelphia Inquirer: “nanny government telling people what’s good for them.”

But more than that, it’s nanny government telling business owners how to run their business. The public should have a reasonable expectation of clean air in a public place - but eating and drinking establishments are not purely public places; they are private spaces to which the public may, but is not required, to enter. Where the public has no choice, a smoking ban is appropriate. Where the public has a choice, it’s not the business of government to limit those choices. Let the market do that. You might have a right to clean air in a public park, but you don’t have a right to clean air in a particular Italian restaurant simply because you like the linguine and don’t want to go anywhere else.

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  12 comments  Tags: Pennsylvania

There are currently 12 comments on this blog post
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citydweller
6/26/07
9:42 PM
Word.
Shawn
6/27/07
8:48 AM
QUOTE(Shut up and get to work @ Jun 27 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]300078[/snapback]
Gil,

You are a wild conservative. You ultra right winger. You are part of a huge tobacco conspiracy! All this time I thought you were fair and balanced now the true Gil comes out. Next you'll probably will support Pat Robertson for president.

Gil, I will remember this quote of yours for a long time...

But when it comes to bars and restaurants - what business is it of the government to tell the owners of private establishments that they are not to permit patrons to smoke? That is and should remain a purely business decision, both for the owners of the establishment and his patrons. Frankly, if you don't want to go to a place like the Brickyard because it's too smoky - don't go. Find another place to eat. And if enough people do that, then maybe the restaurant will get the message; maybe its owners will realize that they are losing revenue by permitting some patrons to smoke. And that they'd make more money by banning it than they are by permitting it.

At what point is it appropriate for government to insert itself into this process? How about not at all.

I can't wait to use this against you.





Indeed. I think we should also make bars exempt from our assault laws. It should the business owner's decision as to whether or not he will allow assault to go on in his bar. So, that if someone walks in that the "regulars" don't like, they can feel free to punch said patron in the head. At that point, the patron can either choose to stay and be pummeled in the head repeadetly or leave and try to find another bar whose owner doesn't allow assault. What business is it of the government as to whether or not a bar owner wants to allow head punches?



Later...Shawn

justplainjoe
6/27/07
9:10 AM
gil is wrong on so many levels.

first it is not the state dictating something as if it is against the wishes of the people. the people want this and the state is enforcing our wishes thru laws, hence the conservatives in lanc co are not betraying their principals.

no one gets drunk on one can of beer so why not allow people to drink beer while they drive as long as they are not over the legal limit?

a wise nanny only steps in when the children misbehave.

so who sez most reataurants don't want this ban but don't bleet it out for fear of offending and losing some customers? this way they can shrug their shoulders and blame it on the "nanny state".

and if some folks stop going to a restaurant because of the smoke, how are the owners to know? do ya thinks that patrons will call them up and say' yer food is great but because it's too smokey inside, we ain't coming back."?

of course not, they just won't come back. and if people stop coming back how will the owners know the real reason? maybe the waiter was rude or they heard sneezing in the kitchen. maybe the other customers were too loud too often.

there is no constitutional right to pollute the air we breathe, george jr notwithstanding.

if people could smoke and hold the smoke in so 100% of the carcinogens remain in their system then who cares if they smoke in public.

but it does not. it is forced into my body, these deadly gasses that the stupid so casually blow into the air as if we don't count. we do count and your days are numbered.

kill yerselves as long as you don't take anyone else with you or expect us to pick up the medical tab for the cancers you will get.

let's be brutally honest folks, smoking is not a very smart thing to do.forcing your filthy habit into my lungs is insulting as well as assaulting me.
funny how smokers won't smoke in their own homes because they don't want to kill their own loved ones but they jump up and down screaming if prohibited from killing mine.
go figger.
Shut up and get to work
6/27/07
9:33 AM
I’m against smoking in bars and restaurants! I find Gil’s statement “what business is it of the government to tell the owners of private establishments that they are not to permit patrons to smoke?” hilarious.



Sounds like Gil is supporting limited government!

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[font="Times"]Way to go Gil!


cyberscribbler
6/27/07
9:57 AM
This issue is so fuzzy it's hard for anyone to have a consistent opinion.

Government has no place telling businesses who to allow to smoke in their establishment. OK then by the same token government has no business telling the same business who they can employ, RIGHT?

Wrong, replace immigration with smoking and conservatives will come crawling out of the woodwork to rally behind it."The immigrants are breaking the law"

When's the last time you could smoke in an office building. Same difference, gov't defining a policy for business, for the good of all (or most).

If I want to run a restaurant which doesn't card or cut anyone off, serves moonshine, allows weed & cigs smoked on the premises, has a kitchen full of illegal immigrants, you're telling me the gov't has no place intervening? YES THEY DO.
Pericles
6/27/07
10:02 AM
QUOTE(Shawn @ Jun 27 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]300079[/snapback]

Indeed. I think we should also make bars exempt from our assault laws. It should the business owner's decision as to whether or not he will allow assault to go on in his bar. So, that if someone walks in that the "regulars" don't like, they can feel free to punch said patron in the head. At that point, the patron can either choose to stay and be pummeled in the head repeadetly or leave and try to find another bar whose owner doesn't allow assault. What business is it of the government as to whether or not a bar owner wants to allow head punches?


We're talking about smoking Shawn, not criminal conduct.

Your analogies are always over the top.

"We'll if the government can't regulate smoking in bars, then the government shouldn't regulate hand grenades. If patrons of a bar want to use hand grenades, they should be allowed."

Gil, I have to give you credit on this one. You surprised me.
Shawn
6/27/07
10:11 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Jun 27 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]300104[/snapback]


We're talking about smoking Shawn, not criminal conduct.

Your analogies are always over the top.

"We'll if the government can't regulate smoking in bars, then the government shouldn't regulate hand grenades. If patrons of a bar want to use hand grenades, they should be allowed."

Gil, I have to give you credit on this one. You surprised me.




The proposed bill will make smoking in bars criminal conduct. At one time in history, punching a stranger in the head was not criminal conduct. Apparently society and the government felt there was a need to pass laws making it illegal to randomly punch someone in the head. I wonder if at that time, people were calling the government a nanny for taking away someone's freedom to punch someone in the head. We are at that same point right now with smoking.



Later...Shawn

justplainjoe
6/27/07
10:30 AM
QUOTE(Shawn @ Jun 27 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]300111[/snapback]




We are at that same point right now with smoking.



Later...Shawn



some will always fight the onward march of civilization .,maybe they should bring back spittoons?LOL

Pericles
6/27/07
11:01 AM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jun 27 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]300115[/snapback]


some will always fight the onward march of civilization .,maybe they should bring back spittoons?LOL



The onward march of civilization towards........what?

Brass spittoons disappeared with the introduction of beer cans. So they've just been modernized, not eliminated.


QUOTE(Shawn @ Jun 27 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]300111[/snapback]


. At one time in history, punching a stranger in the head was not criminal conduct. Apparently society and the government felt there was a need to pass laws making it illegal to randomly punch someone in the head. I wonder if at that time, people were calling the government a nanny for taking away someone's freedom to punch someone in the head. We are at that same point right now with smoking.
Later...Shawn



I don't think too many Cro-Magnon men complained about the government and losing their rights... since that's probably how far you have to go back to find a time when radomly punching someone in the head was OK.

Your arguments lack perspective.
Shawn
6/27/07
11:23 AM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Jun 27 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]300124[/snapback]


The onward march of civilization towards........what?

Brass spittoons disappeared with the introduction of beer cans. So they've just been modernized, not eliminated.

I don't think too many Cro-Magnon men complained about the government and losing their rights... since that's probably how far you have to go back to find a time when radomly punching someone in the head was OK.

Your arguments lack perspective.




I think the appropriate perspective is this: Of course, you're right. Its because punching someone in the head is so very obviously one person's actions having a negative effect on the health and saftey of another person. In the case of second hand smoke, the effect is less obvious because the damage isn't directly felt or visible. It is something that works on the inside of our bodies and may take time to show the physical effects of the damage. It was only recently that people would concede that breathing the biological waste of another person is a saftey/health hazard. The medical profession has gone through a similar thing over the years. There was a time when operations were performed with no regard to bacteria and other airborne germs. Afterall, if you can't see something, how can it be hazardous? Over time, it was learned that bacteria and other germs could be deadly during an operation. So, regulations for washing hands, sterilizing equipment, wearing masks, etc. were put into place to make operations safer and to ensure that the few non-believing surgeons would follow protocol. Society is finally waking to the realization that second hand smoke is a danger, and that we have a right to be protected from it in public places.



Later...Shawn

usedmeat
6/27/07
11:46 AM
QUOTE
In the case of second hand smoke, the effect is less obvious because the damage isn't directly felt or visible.
The missus has allergies, so did my mom, they both would have coughing spasms from the smoke in people's clothing. If I stopped off afer work for a cold one I would have to shake my clothes out before going into the house. Before they banned smoking on the campus the wife's fellow office workers would duck out for a cigarette when they came back she would go thru hell until the smoke dissapated from their clothing.

Drinking and driving is banned because of the negative consequences and so should smoking in public places.

justplainjoe
6/27/07
12:20 PM
QUOTE(Pericles @ Jun 27 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]300124[/snapback]


The onward march of civilization towards........what?



acting as an agency to protect the majority from the boorish and filthy habits of those who took for granted we would lie down , roll over,and get cancer instead of holding the cancer causers accountable.

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