Money and cops

June 11th, 2007 8:23 am · 15 comments

Another shooting in Lancaster, this time outside the Blue Star. This, on the heels of this story I wrote for our newspaper this weekend, pointing out that violence is up in both the city and the county. But of course, we’re comparing apples and oranges.

The violence in the county, in one way, is scarier. Because for the most part it’s random, or seems to be. Diener, Nickel Mines - the jury still out on the Haines murders, though it seems likely that it was a targeted murder; random psychos don’t generally wander around neighborhoods trying doors to see what’s unlocked. Though I suppose stranger things have happened.

The situation in the city is different, grimmer, more intractable. Police chief Sam Gatchell said last week that if you’re not involved in gangs or drugs, the chances of you being involved in a shooting are low; the violence in Lancaster is simply not random. But there are a lot of people involved in gangs and drugs. They are of a younger generation that is very quick to settle disputes with firearms. A co-worker who lives in an increasingly drug-infested neighborhood says the bad guys on her block simply are not afraid of the police.

So what to do? In this thread regarding last week’s print edition, usedmeat makes an excellent point: You get the policing you pay for. That’s not to denigrate the cops; rather, it is to say that in Lancaster, by anyone’s measure, there are too few police officers, perhaps far too few. This, at a time when I’m told several grants that allowed the department to hire more cops over the past few years are about to run out. Meaning there soon may be even fewer police.

But while we might agree the city needs more officers, where’s the money coming from? City taxpayers? Not bloody likely. Or maybe people in the county would be willing to pay a special tax to hire city officers. Not on your life.

So we’ll scrounge for state and federal dollars, but that will only provide limited success. Meanwhile, some of the other things we could be doing will also go undone because there isn’t the money for it. In recent months I’ve wondered why there aren’t any police substations in some of the city’s more troubled neighborhoods - you know, precinct houses where cops are on duty all the time, when they can respond in quicker fashion to trouble in the immediate neighborhood. Manor Street would be an ideal spot for a substation. But who’s going to pay for it? If we don’t have enough cops on the beat now, how in the world would we staff substations?

Lancaster City needs significant sources of new revenue, and needs it now. That’s hardly news, every school district and municipality in the county could and would say the same thing. But we, as a society, are unable to come up with any new sources of revenue; the ones we do come up with - see slots in Pennsylvania - are always by nature going to be controversial. Ultimately, though, we will be forced to swallow our compunctions because we so desperately need the revenue. We simply have no choice.

What neither police nor politicians can say is that crime in the city is out of control - in that, they are unable to prevent these shootings, the violence continues apace and that seems likely to persist for the foreseeable future. There are indeed attempts at structural change going on that might bear fruit down the road - but as for the Blue Star shooting, as for however many other shootings we may have this week, they won’t make a difference. The problem is now, there needs to be a solution now. I fear there isn’t.

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  15 comments  Tags: crime · Lancaster

There are currently 15 comments on this blog post
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Subsonix
6/11/07
9:02 AM
I don't know if more cops are going to fix this problem. You're looking for crime prevention, and that's not what cops do. They're merely a reactive force.

You want a reliable fix that will SAVE tax dollars? Cut off the social services that make it profitable for big city refuse to move in to Lancaster.

More cops, more courts, and more jails is just a band-aid, and there's no good reason to saddle the law abiding tax payers with the bill of this trash removal.
Shut up and get to work
6/11/07
9:35 AM
Gil, you said last week you personally walk between LNP and central market. I thought things were safe so I bought a property in the 7th ward. Ooops am I allowed to say 7th ward? I want to be PC for all my liberal comrades. I noticed some Intel reporters actually live at their offices on King Street. It must be safe. I can’t wait for the convention center to be completed. Those conventioneers will here more Spanish than Pennsylvania Dutch.

grieker
6/11/07
12:01 PM
"by anyone’s measure, there are too few police officers, perhaps far too few."



This isn't the problem. The problem is that there is no reason NOT to break the law. There must be discomfort applied to bad behaviour. Punishment is something that no longer exists because it is everyone elses fault.

solitary
6/11/07
2:37 PM
QUOTE(grieker @ Jun 11 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]295583[/snapback]
"by anyone's measure, there are too few police officers, perhaps far too few."

This isn't the problem. The problem is that there is no reason NOT to break the law. There must be discomfort applied to bad behaviour. Punishment is something that no longer exists because it is everyone elses fault.
The legal system does need a lot of help, this is one of the problems.

Another is it's cool to have spent some time in the joint. I don't know how to fix that notion.
QUOTE(Subsonix @ Jun 11 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]295540[/snapback]
I don't know if more cops are going to fix this problem. You're looking for crime prevention, and that's not what cops do. They're merely a reactive force.
...
More cops, more courts, and more jails is just a band-aid, and there's no good reason to saddle the law abiding tax payers with the bill of this trash removal.
Cops do have a preventative effect. Hypothetically, I'm ill-intentioned and hard-up for cold cash. Personally, I'm not the type to stick-up small time places, but I need $100 to take my woman out for the night, she's been naggin' me for weeks.
So I'm walking down the street to the Turkey Hill with my 99-cent store water pistol spray painted black. (ok, I am a small-time place kinda guy). I got it tucked in the front of my waist band, cause I'm not gonna blow the boys off if I hit the trigger. It'll just look like I wet myself.
So I'm half a block away, a patrol car goes by. Now I'm a little more nervous about this. But I keep walking.
I walk in the door up to the counter, the bells jingle as the door opens, I look. It's a cop. So I pay for a Snickers bar with my last dollar and try to saunter out the door without anyone noticing that I really did !profanity! my pants.

There are enough cops, there are not enough patrols. There is too little (more like no) reaction to petty crimes. The petty criminals gradually get more and more advanced until they do something not-petty and someone gets hurt.
Faulkner
6/11/07
2:45 PM
QUOTE(Shut up and get to work @ Jun 11 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]295546[/snapback]
Gil, you said last week you personally walk between LNP and central market. I thought things were safe so I bought a property in the 7th ward. Ooops am I allowed to say 7th ward? I want to be PC for all my liberal comrades. I noticed some Intel reporters actually live at their offices on King Street. It must be safe. I can't wait for the convention center to be completed. Those conventioneers will here more Spanish than Pennsylvania Dutch.


I can tell you this, you wouldn't last 5 minutes in the 7th Ward.
Subsonix
6/11/07
3:07 PM
QUOTE
Cops do have a preventative effect.


They do, but only in the case where they are actually present in the immediate area. Even if the police presence in Lancaster were increased ten times over, there's still no way to cover every place all the time. In your example, you would just strike again once the cop leaves. The only true protection for a Turkey Hill or such a store would be to have a cop or guard on duty all the time (which is what some big-city stores have to do). A hold-up or similar crime takes only a few minutes. To keep a person/store/car safe is a 24 hour job and we'll never have enough police for that.

In Philly, you can't walk a block without seeing at least one police car, but it doesn't stop stores from being robbed in broad daylight.
Scubabike420
6/11/07
3:18 PM
QUOTE
Lancaster City needs significant sources of new revenue, and needs it now. That’s hardly news, every school district and municipality in the county could and would say the same thing.




So the solution is to turn PA into even more of a socialist state? Politicians need to get back to funding the core services before all the other hand outs. Grants, tax credits, low interest loans always go towards worthy causes, but it is these programs that prevent the proper funding of schools and police departments. Let's see what us good citizens of PA are funding today.



A creative package of financing for a $7.2 million dollar expansion that promises to create 55 new jobs over three years.

http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?Q=463977&A=11



We have over $700,000 for housing revitalization.

http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?Q=463935&A=11



The list goes on and on.









citydweller
6/11/07
3:18 PM
I was at Penn square one sunny afternoon recently, and sat down to "just look over the scene". I was sitting across the street, one way, from a Multi-billion $ financial giant, another way the county's largest news monopoly, the "impending" $180 million hotel and convention center diagonally, the historic courthouse and market at my shoulder, and the city's tallest building at my back.

Right in the heart of it all. Middle of the afternoon. Beautiful sunny day.

As I sat there, just taking in the beautiful blue sky through the missing teeth of the Watt & Shand facade, a couple of young men sauntered past, apparently looking for their lost belts. One of them gave me an appraising look as he passed, a cold calculating look that seemed to say "are you weak? do you have money or jewelry? should I mess with you?". I felt a small shiver as they continued on in search of a means to keep their pants on.

I took a closer look around the square, taking an informal body count, or a census as it were. One or two suits yapping on their phones, a couple folks eating a late lunch, maybe a dozen or so "ordinary" people passing on their way two and fro. And at least a dozen very young women pushing double and triple strollers. I hadn't noticed at first, but apparently at least 35 or 40 young men had their belts stolen overnight, because they were out in droves, easily making up the majority of the people moving about the square, with a good number of them "just hangin'" about the street corners.

I started watching the traffic. It seemed that the belt thieves had also been on a spree stealing car suspensions, mufflers and volume control knobs. The red traffic lights seemed to operate at more of a dull pink for the first 20 or 30 seconds for most of them, but to be fair the more ordinary SUVs seemed to suffer the same defect.

I thought about the whole scene for a few minutes, and realized that if it were 11 pm instead of 3pm, I would not want to be anywhere near this crowd under any circumstances. Especially since I hadn't seen a single police car or foot patrolman the entire time I was there.

Then I had to go. The City officials, State dignitaries and millionaires would be leaving the convention center ground-breaking ceremony and moving to the reception at the Fulton, and I had promised to take some photos. When I got there I found all the missing police. And all the money.
twinmom
6/11/07
3:41 PM
City - you are an amazing storyteller. I enjoyed reading this post.
justplainjoe
6/11/07
3:55 PM
QUOTE(Scubabike420 @ Jun 11 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]295621[/snapback]




So the solution is to turn PA into even more of a socialist state? Politicians need to get back to funding the core services before all the other hand outs. Grants, tax credits, low interest loans always go towards worthy causes, but it is these programs that prevent the proper funding of schools and police departments. Let's see what us good citizens of PA are funding today.



A creative package of financing for a $7.2 million dollar expansion that promises to create 55 new jobs over three years.

http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?Q=463977&A=11



We have over $700,000 for housing revitalization.

http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?Q=463935&A=11



The list goes on and on.











not to mention pa.'s share of the hunnerts of billions of dollars wasted in iraq.how many cops would you have on the street with our share of that money that is gone forever??

grieker
6/11/07
3:57 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jun 11 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]295624[/snapback]


not to mention pa.'s share of the hunnerts of billions of dollars wasted in iraq.how many cops would you have on the street with our share of that money that is gone forever??



Joe, you need a tractor!

solitary
6/11/07
4:07 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ Jun 11 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]295618[/snapback]
They do, but only in the case where they are actually present in the immediate area. Even if the police presence in Lancaster were increased ten times over, there's still no way to cover every place all the time. In your example, you would just strike again once the cop leaves. The only true protection for a Turkey Hill or such a store would be to have a cop or guard on duty all the time (which is what some big-city stores have to do). A hold-up or similar crime takes only a few minutes. To keep a person/store/car safe is a 24 hour job and we'll never have enough police for that.

In Philly, you can't walk a block without seeing at least one police car, but it doesn't stop stores from being robbed in broad daylight.
I'm not saying that the criminal element will miraculously disappear. That's a pipe dream. Even police states have crime. What I'm saying is that use the existing force to deter crime with exposure. Mountville seems to have too many cops, they're constantly sitting up on the 30 on-ramp looking for speeders.
Which is the next thing I see that Gil missed, cops and money, cops generating revenue. Speeding tickets are one of my favorite things to preach about, but I'm not going to today, since all the other posters in this thread have heard my rants.
As far as keeping cars safe, that's not possible either. However, there needs to be thorough investigation into small time thefts. How many cars does the average theif break into before he's caught? How many crimes is he charged with? Why? Lack of investigation to tie him to the other incidents.
QUOTE(citydweller @ Jun 11 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]295622[/snapback]
I was at Penn square one sunny afternoon recently, and sat down to "just look over the scene". ...a couple of young men sauntered past, apparently looking for their lost belts. One of them gave me an appraising look as he passed, a cold calculating look that seemed to say "are you weak? do you have money or jewelry? should I mess with you?". I felt a small shiver as they continued on in search of a means to keep their pants on.
...I hadn't noticed at first, but apparently at least 35 or 40 young men had their belts stolen overnight, because they were out in droves, easily making up the majority of the people moving about the square, with a good number of them "just hangin'" about the street corners.

I started watching the traffic. It seemed that the belt thieves had also been on a spree stealing car suspensions, mufflers and volume control knobs. The red traffic lights seemed to operate at more of a dull pink for the first 20 or 30 seconds for most of them, but to be fair the more ordinary SUVs seemed to suffer the same defect.

I thought about the whole scene for a few minutes, and realized that if it were 11 pm instead of 3pm, I would not want to be anywhere near this crowd under any circumstances. Especially since I hadn't seen a single police car or foot patrolman the entire time I was there.
Nice.
I too have seen the rash of stolen belts and it's after effects, it's not pretty!
While you were in Penn Square, did you see the assinine traffic pattern? I ask where are the cops that appear the first and second of each month to "remind" people who forgot to renew their registration when it comes to that intersection. I wonder, can't a simple traffic light adjustment (earlier red/shorter green or delayed green) be made to clear that intersection before the light changes?
Ah well.
justplainjoe
6/11/07
5:34 PM
QUOTE(grieker @ Jun 11 2007, 03:57 PM) [snapback]295625[/snapback]


Joe, you need a tractor!





well i guess you feel the money was better spent losing iraq to the nutty islamic fundies, however i would rather have spent the money here in america.

you know schools, cops, roads, health care, safe streets, drug interdiction.that kind of stuff.
did i mention more cops??

you seem to have different priorities than most of us, but who am i to tell you live with the crime , it is what you have wrought.


and don't forget the iranians will be grateful for all you have done for them so that is one nice thing to say.LOL
Shut up and get to work
6/11/07
7:13 PM






well i guess you feel the money was better spent losing iraq to the nutty islamic fundies, however i would rather have spent the money here in america.

you know schools, cops, roads, health care, safe streets, drug interdiction.that kind of stuff.
did i mention more cops??

you seem to have different priorities than most of us, but who am i to tell you live with the crime , it is what you have wrought.





Just plain joe, Why does the war have anything to do with spending in this city. Libs think the war is our only problem and the end of the war will result in billions for social programs. Well JoeI IT IS ALL BORROWED! This country is spending like a drunken sailor,Sorry Dad, And there is goiong to be a day we have to pay back the money . So stop equating the war to stupid social programs.

How many times have I seen a bunch of local, Life long beurocrats, standing together and patting themselves on the back on how great the latest PROGRAM is. To see the next year the next program that will save everyone.

Shut up and stop blaming the war. At least we are killing some terrorist for the money in Iraq and the war is not being waged here. I don't see any return on social programs in this city. except for a bunch of ingrates looking for the next hand out.


and don't forget the iranians will be grateful for all you have done for them so that is one nice thing to say.LOL [/quote]

local yocal
6/11/07
9:14 PM
has anyone seen dennys on columbia ave overnight on the weekend, talk about needing 24 hour security
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