On curing teh gay

June 5th, 2007 9:49 am · 10 comments

As per yesterday’s discussion on our new Surgeon General nominee, Mr. Harriet Miers (h/t citydweller), the question comes up, how legitimate is it to think that teh gay can be cured?

And it seems to all hinge upon how you define “gay.”

Are we defining gay in terms of specific homosexual acts? In other words, if you actually have sex with a member of the same sex, that’s gay. Well, sure.

But how about the inclination? How about homosexual feelings, being attracted to the same sex? Is that considered “gay?”

In general terms, probably. But it’s telling that even some of the best-known faith-based “ex-gay” organizations define ”cure” largely in terms of actual behavior.

Exodus International, for example, defines “change” as “attaining abstinence from homosexual behaviors, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender.”

Lessening of homosexual temptations; not the abolition of them. In other words, you will still be attracted to members of the same sex, to some degree.

But, through willpower - through abstinence - you may be able to refrain from the actual behavior.

“May be” because there are perilously few reliable, peer-related studies showing that gays can be “cured.” One landmark 2002 study, by Dr. Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder (no link, if I find it will update) reported this:

Of the 202 individuals in the study, each had undergone, on average, 118 sessions of counseling with ex-gay ministries over a period longer than two years.

The number of the 202 subjects who said they were no longer struggling and had fully transitioned to heterosexuality: 8.

Number of those eight which were currently working as counselors with an ex-gay ministry and where an admission of same sex attraction would likely cost them their job: 7

Number who, on a one year follow up who felt they had “failed”: 176

Number who reported that “conversion” had given them long term significant harm: 155

Number who attempted suicide during therapy: 23

Number who attempted it in the 12 months following: 11

Number who reported spiritual harm ranging from leaving Christianity, complete loss of faith, or anger at and inability to trust God and the church: over 100

Beyond all this, I would love to see a legitimate report on the recidivism rate of those who pronounce themselves “cured.” But check out this line from Wikipedia: “In the span of eighteen years, eight of the Exodus International ministries have dissolved because the director realized they were still gay.”

Surgeon General David Satcher in 2001 issued a report stating that “there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.” The wingers, of course, didn’t like that one bit.

But don’t get me wrong. I’m certain that actual homosexual behavior can be curtailed, through abstinence. But the whole process of “curing” teh dreaded gay smacks of self-loathing. I suspect that those who wish to be “cured” want it for religious or family reasons specifically. They are desperate to be rid of their same-sex attractions, because they feel as if they are sinning, they are told that they are sinning, they have alienated family, they  just want to be normal. They don’t want to live this life of shame and self-hatred.

And you know, if changing their bevahior sticks, and makes them happy - more power to them. But to accept that this is tantamount to fundamental change is to argue the exact opposite as well - that those who are straight could turn gay with an equal success rate; could force themselves to feel attraction to the same sex when, innately, they don’t.

That’s why I think the ex-gay movement is a sham. I do not view sexual attraction as malleable. The tiger can insist he’s spotted, can look past appearances.

But ultimately, he does not change his stripes.

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  10 comments  Tags: Homosexuality

There are currently 10 comments on this blog post
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Goldilocks
6/5/07
10:22 AM
From Daisy’s link in another thread.

Definition of “teh gay”, “Term used mostly by those denigrating anti-homosexual positions of religious leaders and far-right wing politicians”.

I would have thought that journalists would have enough intellectual abilities and be open minded enough to understand that differing opinions can be discussed without denigration.

I see that I was wrong.

Daisy Lee Myers
6/5/07
10:33 AM
can you print the article for me?
i can't read it via web tv

thanks

FYI

ms miers is gay.. that isn't gossip and
is well known!
MelodyMcFarland
6/5/07
10:38 AM
The whole damn headine is just disgusting. "Cured"? Whatever. When people stop caring about who sleeps with whom the world will be a better place. I'll never understand why the priggish among us see it fit to make this their business. And then continually harp on it. Get over it.

I didn't even read the article. I'm just sick of the sexual orientation issue being brought up constantly. HOmosexuality is a fact of life. Always has been and always will be. Nothing new.
Daisy Lee Myers
6/5/07
10:44 AM


Urban Dictionary: teh gay

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:PfUiO...erm%3Dteh%2Bgay


QUOTE(Goldilocks @ Jun 5 2007, 10:22 AM) [snapback]293996[/snapback]
From Daisy's link in another thread.

Definition of "teh gay", "Term used mostly by those denigrating anti-homosexual positions of religious leaders and far-right wing politicians".

I would have thought that journalists would have enough intellectual abilities and be open minded enough to understand that differing opinions can be discussed without denigration.

I see that I was wrong.

dodgecrew
6/5/07
10:47 AM
QUOTE(MelodyMcFarland @ Jun 5 2007, 10:38 AM) [snapback]294002[/snapback]
The whole damn headine is just disgusting. "Cured"? Whatever. When people stop caring about who sleeps with whom the world will be a better place. I'll never understand why the priggish among us see it fit to make this their business. And then continually harp on it. Get over it.

I didn't even read the article. I'm just sick of the sexual orientation issue being brought up constantly. HOmosexuality is a fact of life. Always has been and always will be. Nothing new.
Here is a news flash for you Melody......there is a chance that the headline was titled with the intent of creating a reaction similar to yours........
Daisy Lee Myers
6/5/07
10:47 AM
AGREE WITH YOU MM.

i was merely providing info on "teh gay" when someone asked for the definition.
Goldilocks
6/5/07
10:49 AM
QUOTE(MelodyMcFarland @ Jun 5 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]294002[/snapback]


I didn't even read the article. I'm just sick of the sexual orientation issue being brought up constantly.



I agree with that statement. Let's talk about what can be done about helping the poor or the millions of kids that are starving in this world. Or how we can help young girls from being forced into sex slavery. Many people in the world today don’t even have decent drinking water or a roof over their heads. I could go on.



Scubabike420
6/5/07
11:01 AM
QUOTE
[i]Lessening of homosexual temptations; not the abolition of them. In other words, you will still be attracted to members of the same sex, to some degree.
[/i]



What is the problem with that? It is acknowledging that not just those who actively seek out homosexual relationships or perform homosexual acts are attracted to members of the same sex. The key here is self restraint. Those who support homosexuality think it is OK to act on those impulses. Those who are against homosexuality think that people should learn to control this impulse. An impulse that places many homosexuals in a position of conflicting natural urges. Urges to act on homosexual tendancies without regard to the long term conflict that is created when the natural urge to raise a family kicks in. Society is then expected to resolve this conflict by allowing homosexuals to adopt or condone other practices that result in a homosexual couple raising a child.



As for this article on curing gays, the obvious problem with the study quoted is that the counseling appears to be done by people who lacked enough training to be successful. Then again since homosexuality was removed as a mental health disorder in the '70s, it would be unethical for a psychologist to counsel homosexuals in a way as to cure them. In fact almost all research into homosexuality has stopped due to this change. As a result, those who's attraction to the same sex is biological are not distinguished from those who practice homosexuality due to an inability to control their strong desire for self gratification. In other words, there are probably gays who could be cured and those who can't, but we will never know because the mental health profession has been told that all homosexuality is normal.

solitary
6/5/07
11:43 AM
QUOTE(Scubabike420 @ Jun 5 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]294010[/snapback]
As a result, those who's attraction to the same sex is biological are not distinguished from those who practice homosexuality due to an inability to control their strong desire for self gratification. In other words, there are probably gays who could be cured and those who can't, but we will never know because the mental health profession has been told that all homosexuality is normal.

It's still abnormal, like red hair or being left handed.
However it's one of the kinder ways mother nature uses for population control.
It's a whole lot easier to accept than, oh, the plague, for instance.
wonderwoman
6/5/07
11:51 AM
I agreed with your first paragraph Scubabike420 but the second paragraph holds differing assumptions than my own. I was trained in the day and age when homosexuality was considered mental illness. Now I hold to the addiction premise. If the addiction premise is true, then a homosexual can change with great difficulty but can not be "cured". So any statistics on recidivism would merely be report on those who remained "on the wagon" as opposed to those who slipped back into old behaviors. Homosexuality is a strong habit to break. Just think of giving up your friends and those you depended upon for years and years ! I applaud those who overcome addiction of any kind but it is not easy.

The genetic tendancy has not been proven to date or replicated one way or the other...but the scientific community tends to say NO...homosexuality is not genetically specific. This is because genetic testing can prove either male or female. My opinion is that because of the complexity involved in the human condition, there is a continuum of attraction that can occur. A lot of the equasion would depend upon nurture or learned behavior. The WINGERS as the author calls them, agree [I cited my stuff in past articles] with the learned behavior part...as most habits are not born overnight except in the case of some drugs. The WINGERS would agree that before the age of accountability of a human being, children are subjected to circumstances beyond their control. Later this filter or framework of looking at the world colors what comes next. This falls under "prior learning".

People who are addicted to drugs, overeating or to love relationships [total heterosexuals can be love addicts, too], need lifelong support. Each individual has a 50/50 statistical chance in any goal that is achievable. Statistics point to the past. The individual cannot be fully compared to others.

As a professional who had to deal with statistical probabilities, I focused more on the individual than on the statistics. I have seen progress where prediction would say a thing was unlikely to happen. Set the individual up to succeed and they have a greater chance to succeed. Tell the individual that they have a 6% chance of success in achieving their goal [according to history], and the discouragement factor will be 94%. How useful is that?


DON't FORGET...that this article was written by Gill S-Smart. Consider the reason he writes and that TalkBack is not acknowledged by him as anything he would consider up to his standards. HA! I consider him "Gill the Troll".
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