Amazing, and not in a good way

May 21st, 2007 9:44 am · 123 comments

This one’s kind of sad, actually.

Over the weekend I was trolling “the Internets” to see what was being said about the Blossom Hill murders. Came across this site, Crimeblogs.us, which - as with most such sites - contained links, lots and lots of speculation, not much else.

Except for one thing. The proprietor of the site - and lots of the posters - noticed the extreme ugliness that accompanied the one thread in particular about this crime on LancasterOnline.com:

The link takes you to LancasterOnline’s message board, and a discussion of this case that I’d imagine anyone close to the Haineses would find offensive. The discussion quickly devolved to an argument between gun lovers and gun haters, with contributions from people who just plain hate the local government, to boot. Amazing, and not in a good way.

Now, OK, I spend a considerable amount of time on the Internets, post to a couple boards (though not LOL) and, you know, ugliness happens. People get a little wrapped up in the issue at hand, say things they’d never say in person, you know how it goes. Nothing to get all worked up about, because it’s not like the LOL board is any worse than any other board.

Or is it?

I bring that up because David Porter of Tornado Alley pointed out another discussion taking place on LOL, this one regarding some pics he posted of McCaskey’s Prom. The girls and guys are all dolled up in the latest way, and some of the girls are wearing dresses that, yep, are a little revealing. I doubt this is something that’s only begun to happen in 2007, I doubt this is only something happening at McCaskey.

But the LOL thread quickly degenerated into a discussion of how these girls look like “hookers.”

Excuse me?

Look, I wouldn’t let my daughter wear some of these dresses to a prom or anywhere else, though God knows what kids will be wearing by the time she makes it to that age. But really - isn’t it completely misogynist to say that dresses like these automatically mean that the person wearing one surely does not possess the qualifications to hold down any sort of professional job?

These are kids. Kids who - as was pointed out in the thread - are about to graduate from high school. Kids who have achieved something, ought to be proud of it, and you know, if they don’t dress the way you or I would dress our own children, how do you make a value judgment solely on the basis of that?

Amazing. And not in a good way.

It’s one thing for me to notice all of this, because sure, I work for the establishment and the Internets represent the mammals running beneath the feet of the MSM dinosaur, blah blah blah. Yeah. It’s another thing when people from outside this community, on the Web, notice that discussion on LancasterOnline can be particularly vicious, even as these things go.

We, society in general, like to notice a general coarsening of the cultural climate in this country, and some would undoubtedly point to these dresses as part of that. There’s a discussion to be had there. But when, on the basis of a few photos of a relative handful of girls you pronounce McCaskey itself a “joke” - well, isn’t that evidence of the coarsening as well?

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  123 comments  Tags: crime · Lancaster

There are currently 123 comments on this blog post
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Goldilocks
5/21/07
11:43 AM
ROTFL….I predicted in my mind that the prom dress mess threads wouldn’t last 24 hours. I was right.

wonderwoman
5/21/07
11:58 AM
Yeah, but Gill [Semi]Smart had to make comments about LOL elsewhere. I think it is time to put some anchors on Mr. Semi.

Goldy. I hate it when a thread ends just after someone refers to me as something I am not. It seems Mr. Porter talks to Gill Semi. Is that the reason the thread was closed so soon...or are there parents who object to Mr. Porters posting of their children's pictures. I as a parent would certainly object!!!

Sorry...Gill, but the girls in question were called Who*es by those peers who attended the prom, dressed appropriately. I think you should stop listening to Mr.Porter or someone should screen what he posts before allowing it sanction.
David Porter
5/21/07
12:41 PM
The disturbing photos have been removed.

The reason there may have been more "less than appropriate" photos is this: a lot of the kids who really "dressed-up" were excited about their outfits and were asking to have their photos taken.

When you're in the middle of so much excitement (as I was)--it's easy to get caught up in the moment and not
think like a fashion critic or Joan Rivers. I never claimed to be an expert on the latest fashion. This is just another phase the kids are going through--and they copy what they see on TV. A lot of their idols are people like Jennifer Lopez, Paris Hilton, etc. who wear dresses worse than what the kids were wearing.

So--let's not be too hard on the kids. It was their one night to "shine"--and if some of their selections were not in good taste..what can I say? It's not a perfect world. I try to support them and give them confidence to go out into the world and make something good of themselves.

Sincerely,
Dave Porter
justplainjoe
5/21/07
12:47 PM
maybe we could force some of the captured taliban to decide what is appropriate for girls to wear. we wouldn't have to pay them since they are prisoners and their taste in womens fashion would certainly be almost as conservative as some of the geezers here.LOL
mrlancaster
5/21/07
1:01 PM
QUOTE(David Porter @ May 21 2007, 12:41 PM) [snapback]290288[/snapback]
The disturbing photos have been removed.

The reason there may have been more "less than appropriate" photos is this: a lot of the kids who really "dressed-up" were excited about their outfits and were asking to have their photos taken.

When you're in the middle of so much excitement (as I was)--it's easy to get caught up in the moment and not
think like a fashion critic or Joan Rivers. I never claimed to be an expert on the latest fashion. This is just another phase the kids are going through--and they copy what they see on TV. A lot of their idols are people like Jennifer Lopez, Paris Hilton, etc. who wear dresses worse than what the kids were wearing.

So--let's not be too hard on the kids. It was their one night to "shine"--and if some of their selections were not in good taste..what can I say? It's not a perfect world. I try to support them and give them confidence to go out into the world and make something good of themselves.

Sincerely,
Dave Porter








Dave there's absolutely no reason to apologize for yourself or the kids. And you are correct, had this been some hollywood red carpet affair i'm sure we'd have seen FAR more!

Subsonix
5/21/07
2:52 PM
QUOTE
Look, I wouldn’t let my daughter wear some of these dresses to a prom or anywhere else, though God knows what kids will be wearing by the time she makes it to that age. But really - isn’t it completely misogynist to say that dresses like these automatically mean that the person wearing one surely does not possess the qualifications to hold down any sort of professional job?






No, because poor judgment is poor judgment in business or in dress. Good judggment is required to hold any decent job, and anyone walking out of the house looking like THAT lacks good judgment.


Goldilocks
5/21/07
3:40 PM
David Porter,

Let’s put the prom dresses aside for a moment.

As a landlord and having interviewed many potential future tenants, the personal appearance of people does have an impact on whether they were rented to or not. And I am sure this logic is applied when having job interviews.

It is a known fact that first impressions are very important and making a good first impression won’t happen when people aren’t dressed appropriately. Unfortunately many of these kids are so influenced by the media and their peers; they have no idea what is appropriate or what isn’t.

If you really want to help these kids, possibly coaching them in their appearance and dressing tastefully, when applying for jobs and housing might be a great help to them.




Alyssarah1
5/21/07
4:32 PM
QUOTE(David Porter @ May 21 2007, 12:41 PM) [snapback]290288[/snapback]



So--let's not be too hard on the kids. It was their one night to "shine"--and if some of their selections were not in good taste..what can I say?




There's no need to say anything. You did a nice thing for the prom guests and took some lovely pictures. The lack of good taste is in the comments of so-called adult posters referring to these young women as wh*res. They weren't applying for a job or renting an apartment - they were at a party. All three situations require different attire. I see worse things at the mall than I saw in these pictures.

wonderwoman
5/21/07
4:55 PM
Alyssarah1. No posters refered to any prom goers as Who*es....it was a peer prom attender who alegedly referred to the poorly dressed prom attenders as Wh*res.
Alyssarah1
5/21/07
5:19 PM
QUOTE(wonderwoman @ May 21 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]290341[/snapback]
Alyssarah1. No posters refered to any prom goers as Who*es....it was a peer prom attender who alegedly referred to the poorly dressed prom attenders as Wh*res.




And was it a prom attendee who posted it on talkback or was it a TB poster? Teenagers can say cruel things about each other. That doesn't make it true, nor should it make it rumor fodder for so-called adults. You may think the attendees used poor judgment in their choice of attire. I happen to think it's worse judgement to post rumors about them (or anybody) on a forum - something that happens far too often on TB.

BeingReal
5/21/07
5:37 PM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ May 21 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]290336[/snapback]

There's no need to say anything. You did a nice thing for the prom guests and took some lovely pictures. The lack of good taste is in the comments of so-called adult posters referring to these young women as wh*res. They weren't applying for a job or renting an apartment - they were at a party. All three situations require different attire. I see worse things at the mall than I saw in these pictures.




I agree with Alyssarah on this one. The comments posted on TB focused on the negative and not the positive in the threads. If you all are so concerned about what these young women were wearing, etc., I'd suggest volunteering your time to present constructive information to them. One of my employers had just such a program as part of their "Bring Your Daughter to Work Day" events, and it was well received by those in junior and senior high school. You don't have to criticize to be an effective role model or to make a positive impact on someone's life. Mr. Porter is a prime example of someone I think is constructively making such an impact.



Edited to add: I guess the prior threads were deleted, so I'll reiterate points I'd made there as well. There were just as many, if not more, young women in the pictures I saw (and I reviewed all 12 pages of them) who were dressed stylishly and even, in some cases, demurely. The few who were more adventurous with their attire were really limited, but as Mr. Porter noted, appeared in several pictures. If you really looked at the whole set, you would have realized this and should have been more complimentary of the majority, rather than critical of the minority.



wonderwoman
5/21/07
6:50 PM
BeingReal. There were girls dressed like street walkers. No one ever said it was ALL of them. But, there WERE girls dressed like street walkers. If you excuse bad manners and bad taste, you put down the ones who are real role models.
justplainjoe
5/21/07
7:01 PM
QUOTE(wonderwoman @ May 21 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]290353[/snapback]
BeingReal. There were girls dressed like street walkers. No one ever said it was ALL of them. But, there WERE girls dressed like street walkers. If you excuse bad manners and bad taste, you put down the ones who are real role models.
aren't street walkers and hoookers the same as ho's??

runutz
5/21/07
7:18 PM
I saw the one photo and said to myself,

"I didn't know Salt-N-Pepa were back together!!"
Magnus
5/21/07
9:16 PM
OK, from a guy perspective (and yes this is how many men think) . . .

When a girl reveals as much as many of those girls did, a guy, no matter how old, thinks one thing . . .


SCORE.


Flame me if you want, but if you think many of the guys at that prom were not thinking that when they saw those "adventurous" girls, you're fooling yourself.

Do we really want to teach our youth (or for that matter, allow them) to represent themselves as pieces of meat??

They may not be whores; that's not for me to judge. However, they certainly dressed like whores.
ihavehorns
5/21/07
10:12 PM
I'm sorry, but I consider myself to be extremely open minded....but...I was disgusted....and I mean DISGUSTED when I saw some of those pictures. The one girl with that green "dress" thing, whatever you would call that skanky thing....looked like a prostitute. Simple as that. Many of these couples looked like they were going to the pimp's and ho's ball instead of the prom. I can't believe the people running this prom didn't turn them away at the door. What's next...the topless prom? Too bad there were more pictures of these skanks than the couples that actually looked nice.
cyberia
5/21/07
10:44 PM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ May 21 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]290336[/snapback]




There's no need to say anything. You did a nice thing for the prom guests and took some lovely pictures. The lack of good taste is in the comments of so-called adult posters referring to these young women as wh*res. They weren't applying for a job or renting an apartment - they were at a party. All three situations require different attire. I see worse things at the mall than I saw in these pictures.

Amen! So much name-calling and nastiness...and in such a Christian community. Shocking!


QUOTE(ihavehorns @ May 21 2007, 10:12 PM) [snapback]290379[/snapback]
I'm sorry, but I consider myself to be extremely open minded....but...I was disgusted....and I mean DISGUSTED when I saw some of those pictures. The one girl with that green "dress" thing, whatever you would call that skanky thing....looked like a prostitute. Simple as that. Many of these couples looked like they were going to the pimp's and ho's ball instead of the prom. I can't believe the people running this prom didn't turn them away at the door. What's next...the topless prom? Too bad there were more pictures of these skanks than the couples that actually looked nice.


Yes! You DO have horns! Maybe an anger control class would be in order! The name-calling is pretty, pretty, pretty scary!
Daisy Lee Myers
5/22/07
1:25 AM
much ado about nothing!





www.tornadoalleyhoops.com
Alyssarah1
5/22/07
6:30 AM
I'm soooo impressed with the wealth of knowledge some of you have acquired about the dressing habits of hos. Since I don't spend any time ho watching, perhaps you can share your expertise with those of us who may be making fashion faux pas. Tell me, should I drop my hem length down to my ankles and raise my neckline to my chin so that I'm not mislabled? Thank you in advance for any advise you can give. blink.gif
johnq
5/22/07
6:56 AM
Amazing is right. A few teenagers wear some revealing dresses to a prom and people on here feel free to label them as hos and future failures. Maybe they did use poor judgement and poor taste. So what. They are kids. I'm sure none of you ever used poor judgement as a teenager. That hardly means a lifetime of failure like some of you have implied.

Looks like racism is alive and well right here on Talkback. Who knew?

Goldilocks
5/22/07
7:04 AM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ May 22 2007, 05:30 AM) [snapback]290408[/snapback]

I'm soooo impressed with the wealth of knowledge some of you have acquired about the dressing habits of hos. Since I don't spend any time ho watching, perhaps you can share your expertise with those of us who may be making fashion faux pas. Tell me, should I drop my hem length down to my ankles and raise my neckline to my chin so that I'm not mislabled? Thank you in advance for any advise you can give. blink.gif



Since it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of dress is inappropriate and tacky for an occasion, I highly doubt anyone here is "ho watching".

A young lady dressing inappropriately is a sign of an extremely insecure person, with very little self respect, who is desperately seeking attention. They don't care if that attention is very negative, as long as it is attention they are receiving. We should be feeling real sorry for the young ladies who wore questionable dresses to their prom as it more than likely is a reflection of much deeper issues in their lives.

LOL....I predict this thread will be closed before the end of the day, just like the other two.







Alyssarah1
5/22/07
7:14 AM
And you got your psych degree where???? You sound like you've been watching too much Oprah.
Goldilocks
5/22/07
7:52 AM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ May 22 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]290413[/snapback]

And you got your psych degree where???? You sound like you've been watching too much Oprah.


LOL, got my degree from having teenagers and opening our home as a place for them to hang out for the last six years, many of them girls.

It doesn’t take a psyche degree to figure the connection between insecure attention seeking and immodesty. The more you show of your body, the less people see of the real you. Just common sense.

I do want to add that insecurities in teen girls is not uncommon, and with a little time and growing up, they can develope into mature self confident women. On doing a lot of reading about teen agers, one gentleman said it correctly. The teen years can be a stage of tempory insanity, some worse than others. Having raised teens, I can vouch for the truth in that statement.

I don't watch Oprah.

justplainjoe
5/22/07
7:59 AM
kinda reminds me of the judge who watched a dirty movie 5 times just to be 100% certain it was porn.LOL
BeingReal
5/22/07
8:03 AM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ May 22 2007, 07:04 AM) [snapback]290412[/snapback]

A young lady dressing inappropriately is a sign of an extremely insecure person, with very little self respect, who is desperately seeking attention. They don't care if that attention is very negative, as long as it is attention they are receiving. We should be feeling real sorry for the young ladies who wore questionable dresses to their prom as it more than likely is a reflection of much deeper issues in their lives.


So I have to ask...How are all of these negative comments helping these girls you fell have "deeper issues"?? I don't necessarily disagree that there may be some issues there, but I take issue with people who post disrespectful, cruel comments about "hos" and "skanks" in this discussion, Goldilocks. If anything, those comments would reinforce any such self-respect issues these young women might have.



And I still don't understand why the attention must be focused on the few who made questionable fashion choices rather than the many other lovely young women whose pictures were also taken by Mr. Porter. It seems there are too many who like to look down their noses rather than support and appreciate the positives. That leads me to believe that others have "deeper issues" of their own. rolleyes.gif



QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 06:56 AM) [snapback]290409[/snapback]
Amazing is right. A few teenagers wear some revealing dresses to a prom and people on here feel free to label them as hos and future failures. Maybe they did use poor judgement and poor taste. So what. They are kids. I'm sure none of you ever used poor judgement as a teenager. That hardly means a lifetime of failure like some of you have implied.


Exactly.

Goldilocks
5/22/07
8:29 AM
QUOTE(BeingReal @ May 22 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]290417[/snapback]

So I have to ask...How are all of these negative comments helping these girls you fell have "deeper issues"?? I don't necessarily disagree that there may be some issues there, but I take issue with people who post disrespectful, cruel comments about "hos" and "skanks" in this discussion, Goldilocks. If anything, those comments would reinforce any such self-respect issues these young women might have.




It doesn’t help them at all and I don’t cast blame on these young girls as much as I do on their parents who haven’t given them the guidance they need at this time in their lives on what is appropriate and what isn’t. Insecurities in young girls are very prevalent because they are just kids, stuck in fully mature adult bodies. They are still searching to figure out who they are. Did you know that the human mind isn’t fully developed until around age 24 or 25? Being a teen isn’t easy and in my opinion girls have it harder. There is so much emphasis put on appearance and sexuality from their peers, the media, etc. There is much more I could say, but you are right, many of us have been a little to hard on these young girls. Give them about ten years and their perspectives, will be completely different.
Magnus
5/22/07
8:36 AM
Can't help but notice that the concentration is on the labeling, rather than the fact that these girls made themselves look like pieces of meat.

AGAIN, they may not be whores, but they certainly dressed with a "come hither" look.

We're skirting the issue [pun intended] by pointing fingers.
mrlancaster
5/22/07
8:49 AM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]290424[/snapback]
Can't help but notice that the concentration is on the labeling, rather than the fact that these girls made themselves look like pieces of meat.

AGAIN, they may not be whores, but they certainly dressed with a "come hither" look.

We're skirting the issue [pun intended] by pointing fingers.




Are they really doing anything different than We as Adults broadcast to millions of TV's, phones and IPODS everyday. We make a big deal about Hollywood and their red carpet affairs. those women show up in dresses that show far more and some are completely see through. Whats the difference, besides three or four zeros on the end of the dresses price tag. Arent they being Whores as well?

cyberscribbler
5/22/07
8:53 AM
Next year's prom queen , if the American Taliban has their way
[attachmentid=1001]


justplainjoe
5/22/07
9:00 AM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ May 22 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]290428[/snapback]
Next year's prom queen , if the American Taliban has their way
[attachmentid=1001]




bwahahahhahahahhahahahhaaaa!!!!

good one!!!!

mam0412
5/22/07
10:49 AM
I'll bet if I pulled out my prom pictures from 20 some years ago you all would say we dressed in poor taste. I can't stand looking at those pictures with all the horrible polyester and "puffy shirts" (like Seinfeld's) we were wearing. Style goes with the times.



But seriously, these are just kids. As long as they're not going to the prom naked, who cares what they wear. It's a prom and not a job interview. If an interviewer asks to see their prom pictures, that's discriminatory.

Subsonix
5/22/07
10:57 AM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 22 2007, 10:49 AM) [snapback]290472[/snapback]
I'll bet if I pulled out my prom pictures from 20 some years ago you all would say we dressed in poor taste. I can't stand looking at those pictures with all the horrible polyester and "puffy shirts" (like Seinfeld's) we were wearing. Style goes with the times.



But seriously, these are just kids. As long as they're not going to the prom naked, who cares what they wear. It's a prom and not a job interview. If an interviewer asks to see their prom pictures, that's discriminatory.



Style and revealing skin are two different things. There is only so much square footage you can show off. Pretty soon these girls are going to be turning themselves inside out for attention.
oftheimmoralminority
5/22/07
11:49 AM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 22 2007, 10:57 AM) [snapback]290474[/snapback]


Style and revealing skin are two different things. There is only so much square footage you can show off. Pretty soon these girls are going to be turning themselves inside out for attention.


Those that can, wear it. Those that can't complain about it. wink.gif

Daisy Lee Myers
5/22/07
11:51 AM
WEB SITES of prom gowns.

WELCOME TO 2007!

yeah, styles have changed from back in the days!


what's in vogue? SOME gowns are slips, some gowns are showing cleavage, a lot of gowns are showing SKIN! OY VEY!?



Fun & Flirty SHORT Prom Dresses

http://store.edressmeprom.com/shortpromdresses.html







Cheap Prom Dresses On Sale $99

http://www.edressme.com/promdress.html


Prom dresses, best 2007 homecoming and prom dresses, prom gowns

http://www.promgirl.net/
ihavehorns
5/22/07
12:02 PM
I agree that prom dress fashion has changed, BUT did you happen to see the girl with the green "dress" in those mccaskey photos? That was not even a dress. It was some sort of horrible sash or something. You could clearly see her entire breasts and it was slit up to her crotch. Ummm.....I think those of you who know how liberal I am, will be shocked to know that EVEN I was disgusted by that dress. For a club....sure, for the prom? Come on! Next year....pasties and thongs? I think our quest to be politically correct has taken us to new levels of insanity!
oftheimmoralminority
5/22/07
12:07 PM
QUOTE(ihavehorns @ May 22 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]290496[/snapback]
I agree that prom dress fashion has changed, BUT did you happen to see the girl with the green "dress" in those mccaskey photos? That was not even a dress. It was some sort of horrible sash or something. You could clearly see her entire breasts and it was slit up to her crotch. Ummm.....I think those of you who know how liberal I am, will be shocked to know that EVEN I was disgusted by that dress. For a club....sure, for the prom? Come on! Next year....pasties and thongs? I think our quest to be politically correct has taken us to new levels of insanity!




I think you have read a little more into the picture than probably was actually visible. With the right lighting and angle a picture could be made to show many different things. Some things that are not even visible in general movement.

cyberia
5/22/07
12:14 PM
QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ May 22 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]290428[/snapback]
Next year's prom queen , if the American Taliban has their way
[attachmentid=1001]


That's great! Be ready for another hysterical response.
ihavehorns
5/22/07
12:18 PM
QUOTE(oftheimmoralminority @ May 22 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]290502[/snapback]

I think you have read a little more into the picture than probably was actually visible. With the right lighting and angle a picture could be made to show many different things. Some things that are not even visible in general movement.



I am CONVINCED now that you have not seen the pictures you are somehow defending. If anyone else saw the picture of the girl in this dress, please speak up. This girl had a rose tatoo at the very top of her thigh, that was CLEARLY visible because of the slit to her crotch! The top of the dress, most definately exposed both of her breasts.

Again, I could care less what people wear to the prom....but...I do think that crotches and breasts should be covered. I truly don't think that is prudish, do you?
Daisy Lee Myers
5/22/07
12:20 PM
ihavehorns-- ask the student where she bought the short gown?

it was HER choice and HER night to "boogie!"

sorry,
we can't POLICE the world!

like i said before-- "MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING!"


Shop sexy dresses, sexy prom dresses, short dresses and sexy dresses for prom at Prom Girl.

http://www.promgirl.com/shop/dresses/sleek








Shop sexy dresses, sexy prom dresses, short dresses and sexy dresses for prom at Prom Girl.

http://www.promgirl.com/shop/dresses/sleek
oftheimmoralminority
5/22/07
12:34 PM
QUOTE(ihavehorns @ May 22 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]290509[/snapback]



I am CONVINCED now that you have not seen the pictures you are somehow defending. If anyone else saw the picture of the girl in this dress, please speak up. This girl had a rose tatoo at the very top of her thigh, that was CLEARLY visible because of the slit to her crotch! The top of the dress, most definately exposed both of her breasts.

Again, I could care less what people wear to the prom....but...I do think that crotches and breasts should be covered. I truly don't think that is prudish, do you?




I have seen all of the pictures. And I do think some of them were a little risqué', but I did not see one uncovered breast or crotch in the lot of them. So I will have to say that your outrage is a bit prudish. This the 21st century and corsets and bloomers are just not in fashion these days.





Daisy Lee Myers
5/22/07
12:39 PM
oy vey!!!

she was posing for a candid shot!


i saw the green short dress.


i saw the tatoo of the right thigh!

i saw CLEAVAGE!

AND TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION..

she was a GIRL!!!!



Home Page TORNADO ALLEY HOOPS

http://www.tornadoalleyhoops.com/
Magnus
5/22/07
12:42 PM
QUOTE(mrlancaster @ May 22 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]290426[/snapback]
Are they really doing anything different than We as Adults broadcast to millions of TV's, phones and IPODS everyday. We make a big deal about Hollywood and their red carpet affairs. those women show up in dresses that show far more and some are completely see through. Whats the difference, besides three or four zeros on the end of the dresses price tag. Arent they being Whores as well?

Who's we? I'm not broadcasting.

AFA them being whores?? Depends on which "starlet" we're talking about . . . some dress as . . . some are . . . and that's NOT a judgment call.


QUOTE(oftheimmoralminority @ May 22 2007, 11:49 AM) [snapback]290485[/snapback]
Those that can, wear it. Those that can't complain about it. wink.gif

Ahem.

Did you see the pictures?? Some of these girls REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLYYY shouldn't be so revealing. There's only so much I can take "hanging" out.

wink.gif
mam0412
5/22/07
1:09 PM
QUOTE(ihavehorns @ May 22 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]290496[/snapback]
I agree that prom dress fashion has changed, BUT did you happen to see the girl with the green "dress" in those mccaskey photos? That was not even a dress. It was some sort of horrible sash or something. You could clearly see her entire breasts and it was slit up to her crotch. Ummm.....I think those of you who know how liberal I am, will be shocked to know that EVEN I was disgusted by that dress. For a club....sure, for the prom? Come on! Next year....pasties and thongs? I think our quest to be politically correct has taken us to new levels of insanity!




I think I saw the dress you are talking about. And yes, it is not something that I would choose for myself or allow my daughter to wear, but that's just me. I don't feel I have to police everyone around me as to what they should wear. I am not the fashion police. If someone else wants to wear it, so be it. They'll end up like Paris Hilton in my opinion, but that's all it is, my opinion. If she's having fun at her prom, that's really all the matters.



This whole conservative dress business for girls stems around the males "problems" of not being able to think clearly around sexy women. Problem is in quotes because I don't think it's a real problem - guys just can't help it. It's in their hormones. So, why should we women wear conservative clothes just so men don't have to think about sex around us. It's their problem, not ours. If we feel good in sexy clothes, that doesn't mean we are asking for sex.

oftheimmoralminority
5/22/07
1:28 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 22 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]290545[/snapback]




I think I saw the dress you are talking about. And yes, it is not something that I would choose for myself or allow my daughter to wear, but that's just me. I don't feel I have to police everyone around me as to what they should wear. I am not the fashion police. If someone else wants to wear it, so be it. They'll end up like Paris Hilton in my opinion, but that's all it is, my opinion. If she's having fun at her prom, that's really all the matters.



This whole conservative dress business for girls stems around the males "problems" of not being able to think clearly around sexy women. Problem is in quotes because I don't think it's a real problem - guys just can't help it. It's in their hormones. So, why should we women wear conservative clothes just so men don't have to think about sex around us. It's their problem, not ours. If we feel good in sexy clothes, that doesn't mean we are asking for sex.





Excellent points that I agree with immensely.

johnq
5/22/07
1:36 PM
I've been on here long enough to have a pretty good idea who's who, and it really seems to me like we have a bunch of lily white folks from the suburbs casting aspersions at black girls from the city. I can't believe this would be the raging topic it is if these pics were of some white girls from the burbs.
BeingReal
5/22/07
1:45 PM
And a few lily white folks from the 'burbs who think people are overreacting and being incredibly harsh in their judgments.



oftheimmoralminority
5/22/07
1:45 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]290555[/snapback]
I've been on here long enough to have a pretty good idea who's who, and it really seems to me like we have a bunch of lily white folks from the suburbs casting aspersions at black girls from the city. I can't believe this would be the raging topic it is if these pics were of some white girls from the burbs.


cheer1.gif cheer1.gif cheer1.gif cheer1.gif

Daisy Lee Myers
5/22/07
1:48 PM
a lot of these photographers including my friend, Mitchell Zachs shoot candid shots.

the prom pictures were too.

life imitates art..




Miami Dolphins Cheerleader Audition Tryouts

http://www.magicalphotos.com/2007_cheerleader_tryout_finals/


celebrities photos at this link:


MagicalPhotos.com - Mitchell Zachs, Photographer

http://magicalphotos.com/





Home Page TORNADO ALLEY HOOPS

http://tornadoalleyhoops.com/
justplainjoe
5/22/07
2:04 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]290531[/snapback]


Did you see the pictures?? Some of these girls REEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLYYY shouldn't be so revealing. There's only so much I can take "hanging" out.

wink.gif


then what do you do?? nevermind i get the picture.

shame on those girls for making you feel the way you do.LOL

mam0412
5/22/07
2:05 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ May 22 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]290571[/snapback]


then what do you do?? nevermind i get the picture.

shame on those girls for making you feel the way you do.LOL







LOL!! Good one!

Magnus
5/22/07
2:54 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]290555[/snapback]
I've been on here long enough to have a pretty good idea who's who, and it really seems to me like we have a bunch of lily white folks from the suburbs casting aspersions at black girls from the city. I can't believe this would be the raging topic it is if these pics were of some white girls from the burbs.

Al??

How's Jesse??
johnq
5/22/07
2:59 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]290596[/snapback]

Al??

How's Jesse??
Dude, I'm a white guy from Manheim Twp. who moved to the city. You really are a rascist, aren't you?
Hammer
5/22/07
3:36 PM
I posted a picture of both the good,and the bad.You all cry all the time"What`s wrong with people today,there`s no respect from anyone,the kids are out of control,why?why?

It starts right here and even at an earlier age.For a parent,black,white or green to allow their daugthter to leave the house dressed like that,there is something wrong with them.What are they telling their kids?The cloth,it wasn`t a dress,barely covered anything,nothing left to a dates imagination.If your going to try to wear something like that,at least,get in shape,if you got it flaunt it. If you haven`t got it,cover it up.Sure a kids going to try to wear what they can get away with.If it`s not obscene,or doesn`t make the child look like a fool,you let it go.If it`s something that is in such bad taste,you have to be a parent,put your foot down.That`s what we`re supposed to do.Right? Teach!

I think Magnus was just just jabbing at you,johnq,I didn`t see raced mentioned til you pulled your race card.

"I've been on here long enough to have a pretty good idea who's who, and it really seems to me like we have a bunch of lily white folks from the suburbs casting aspersions at black girls from the city. I can't believe this would be the raging topic it is if these pics were of some white girls from the burbs." johnq

Pretty fly for a white guy wink.gif
johnq
5/22/07
3:41 PM
QUOTE(Hammer @ May 22 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]290609[/snapback]
I posted a picture of both the good,and the bad.You all cry all the time"What`s wrong with people today,there`s no respect from anyone,the kids are out of control,why?why?

It starts right here and even at an earlier age.For a parent,black,white or green to allow their daugthter to leave the house dressed like that,there is something wrong with them.What are they telling their kids?The cloth,it wasn`t a dress,barely covered anything,nothing left to a dates imagination.If your going to try to wear something like that,at least,get in shape,if you got it flaunt it. If you haven`t got it,cover it up.Sure a kids going to try to wear what they can get away with.If it`s not obscene,or doesn`t make the child look like a fool,you let it go.If it`s something that is in such bad taste,you have to be a parent,put your foot down.That`s what we`re supposed to do.Right? Teach!

I think Magnus was just just jabbing at you,johnq,I didn`t see raced mentioned til you pulled your race card.

"I've been on here long enough to have a pretty good idea who's who, and it really seems to me like we have a bunch of lily white folks from the suburbs casting aspersions at black girls from the city. I can't believe this would be the raging topic it is if these pics were of some white girls from the burbs." johnq

Pretty fly for a white guy wink.gif
I'll stand by what I said.
Magnus
5/22/07
4:36 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]290614[/snapback]
I'll stand by what I said.

I was just jabbing at you.

Hammer was right though. No one had pulled the race card yet, until it flew out of your deck.

Pretty fly indeed. wink.gif
johnq
5/22/07
4:51 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 04:36 PM) [snapback]290629[/snapback]

I was just jabbing at you.

Hammer was right though. No one had pulled the race card yet, until it flew out of your deck.

Pretty fly indeed. wink.gif
Say what you want. I do not believe the comments about the girls poor judgement and future inability to get professional jobs would have been made by the posters on here about a bunch of white girls from the burbs. Do you?

It's too bad you can't go back and read some of what was said. Just because people didn't come right out and use rascist terms, doesn't mean it was not implied by their comments. If it makes you feel better to accuse me of playing the race card, so be it, but it was played before my comment.

And were you jabbing at me the way Imus was at the girls from Rutgers? Some people just don't get it.

Magnus
5/22/07
6:38 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]290636[/snapback]
Say what you want. I do not believe the comments about the girls poor judgement and future inability to get professional jobs would have been made by the posters on here about a bunch of white girls from the burbs. Do you?

For me to assume the motives of the other posters would be judgmental, so my suggestion is that you take a poll for the overall motivation.

As for me, yes I would have made the same comments I have made already in this thread, no matter the color, gender, religion, or any other defining characteristic.

If that was my daughter dressed like some of those girls were, I'd tell her the same thing, along with "You're not leaving this house like that", "You're better than that look", and "If you think for a minute I'm going to let some hormone driven teenage boy eye up my daughter's unmentionable, you and him are sorely mistaken".

Enough said.

QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]290636[/snapback]
It's too bad you can't go back and read some of what was said. Just because people didn't come right out and use rascist terms, doesn't mean it was not implied by their comments. If it makes you feel better to accuse me of playing the race card, so be it, but it was played before my comment.

I can go back and read the comments. You played the race card . . . color has nothing to do with this thread, their dress, or the McCaskey prom. The inappropriate dress of some of the girls (and guys, to be fair) IS the topic at hand.

QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]290636[/snapback]
And were you jabbing at me the way Imus was at the girls from Rutgers? Some people just don't get it.

Nope - Imus was a moron that was taken advantage of by an opportunistic politician [there's nothing ministerial about the Reverend Al]. Imus was wrong for saying what he did. Reverend Al jumped all over the opportunity just like he has done for years.

YOU played the race card, straight out of the Reverend Al's playbook. Take responsibility for your own comments.
johnq
5/22/07
7:01 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 06:38 PM) [snapback]290660[/snapback]

For me to assume the motives of the other posters would be judgmental, so my suggestion is that you take a poll for the overall motivation.

As for me, yes I would have made the same comments I have made already in this thread, no matter the color, gender, religion, or any other defining characteristic.

If that was my daughter dressed like some of those girls were, I'd tell her the same thing, along with "You're not leaving this house like that", "You're better than that look", and "If you think for a minute I'm going to let some hormone driven teenage boy eye up my daughter's unmentionable, you and him are sorely mistaken".

Enough said.


I can go back and read the comments. You played the race card . . . color has nothing to do with this thread, their dress, or the McCaskey prom. The inappropriate dress of some of the girls (and guys, to be fair) IS the topic at hand.


Nope - Imus was a moron that was taken advantage of by an opportunistic politician [there's nothing ministerial about the Reverend Al]. Imus was wrong for saying what he did. Reverend Al jumped all over the opportunity just like he has done for years.

YOU played the race card, straight out of the Reverend Al's playbook. Take responsibility for your own comments.
I already said I stand by what I said. Why so upset? Did I strike a nerve?
Magnus
5/22/07
7:05 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 07:01 PM) [snapback]290667[/snapback]
I already said I stand by what I said. Why so upset? Did I strike a nerve?

What if Imus had "stood by" his comments?

Would that have been taking responsibility for them?
johnq
5/22/07
7:15 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 07:05 PM) [snapback]290668[/snapback]

What if Imus had "stood by" his comments?

Would that have been taking responsibility for them?
I didn't call anyone names. I just pointed out that I don't believe the reaction would have been the same had those girls been white. I believe the comments made by others were racially motivated. I don't see those who compared those girls to streetwalkers or said they had no future coming on here to stand by their comments. Why do you think that is? They certainly have the opportunity.
Magnus
5/22/07
7:25 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 07:15 PM) [snapback]290674[/snapback]
I didn't call anyone names. I just pointed out that I don't believe the reaction would have been the same had those girls been white. I believe the comments made by others were racially motivated. I don't see those who compared those girls to streetwalkers or said they had no future coming on here to stand by their comments. Why do you think that is? They certainly have the opportunity.

"Standing by" your comments, and taking responsibility for them, are two categorically different things.
twinmom
5/22/07
7:34 PM
johnq-



You may not have called anyone names, but you insinuated that the comments were being made because these girls were not white. I didn't see comments before that said anything about race, of course I may have missed any, the other threads disappeared before I read them all. Personally, I wouldn't care if the girls were pink and orange. I felt some of the dresses were a tad provacative for a prom. I would feel the same way if those dresses showed up at MT. Of course they very well may have, I did not see any pictures of prom goers in MT on talkback, but I would expect the comments to be the same.



I did see that David Porter has removed 30 pictures deemed offensive by the McCaskey principal. Whether that was because he thought they were offensive, or because of parental pressures, I don't know.



I also saw a lot of girls dressed in prom dresses that were quite nice and they looked very beautiful. And while some the guys were dressed in attire that may not be my taste, they looked good as well. I really liked the couples who coordinated. Very nice! Even the hair/side of face painting that matched the dresses was nice.



Anyway, I understand you position, some comments may have been a little judgemental. Prom attire will not decide your future and it should not be assumed that just because someone wears something one night that is how they normally dress. Who hasn't bought something that looked good in the store, but not quite the same when you actually wore it. These girls obviously have high self esteem, which should help them go far.

johnq
5/22/07
7:38 PM
QUOTE(Magnus @ May 22 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]290678[/snapback]

"Standing by" your comments, and taking responsibility for them, are two categorically different things.
How so?



And why do you think those who insulted the girls have not been back to take responsibilty for them, or to stand by them, if those two things are different?



And do you stand by your Al? jab at me? And take responsibilty for it? How is that NOT a rascist remark?



If it makes you feel better, I take full responsibilty for my remarks as well.

Other than your jab, which was rascist, I have no beef with you on this one. I am offended that people made those remarks about those girls, and I think it is naive at best to think that those remarks were not racially motivated. Do you REALLY think that a photo of a white Hempfield girl in a similar dress would have started this? And do you REALLY think anyone would have made the remarks about that white girl never being able to hold down a professional job, and the other disparaging remarks that were made? REALLY?

NativeBlue
5/23/07
12:17 AM
QUOTE(Hammer @ May 22 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]290609[/snapback]

It starts right here and even at an earlier age.For a parent,black,white or green to allow their daugthter to leave the house dressed like that,there is something wrong with them.What are they telling their kids?Sure a kids going to try to wear what they can get away with.If it`s not obscene,or doesn`t make the child look like a fool,you let it go.If it`s something that is in such bad taste,you have to be a parent,put your foot down.That`s what we`re supposed to do.Right? Teach!

I can't believe I agree completely with Hammer! Here's one--try taking a teenage girl shopping for a Halloween costume...it's unbelievable what skankalicious outfits are being marketed to "tweens" let alone teens!!! But (with prom dresses, costumes, super lowcut "crack" jeans) as a parent it's your job to say no, keep searching and searching for something that's appropriate, etc. Letting the kid wear this crap is not an option — if it sells companies will just make more of it and you end up with even fewer appropriate choices next year.

QUOTE(twinmom @ May 22 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]290682[/snapback]

I did see that David Porter has removed 30 pictures deemed offensive by the McCaskey principal. Whether that was because he thought they were offensive, or because of parental pressures, I don't know.

I think it's a shame that the principal asked the photos be removed because he thought they were offensive but allowed the students into the prom. If the dresses were too offensive to be posted online then they were obviously not acceptable for a school-sponsored event.

QUOTE(twinmom @ May 22 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]290682[/snapback]

These girls obviously have high self esteem, which should help them go far.

There's where we disagree. I look at these girls and think they must have really low self-esteem and are trying to get attention any way they can. If you know teens you know darn well a lot of their classmates were talking about them in an derogatory manner — but in their minds at least they got noticed...
harv1
5/23/07
12:37 AM
"This whole conservative dress business for girls stems around the males "problems" of not being able to think clearly around sexy women. Problem is in quotes because I don't think it's a real problem - guys just can't help it. It's in their hormones. So, why should we women wear conservative clothes just so men don't have to think about sex around us. It's their problem, not ours. If we feel good in sexy clothes, that doesn't mean we are asking for sex."

There are entire religious faiths built upon that singular tenet. Women are inherently responsible so as not to create the downfall and damnation of men. If they do so, and if men falter, the women pay the consequences. In some religions, it's death; while in others it's being labeled and looked down upon. Women are taught that they must keep the natural lust of men in check... that it is their valor and conversely their sin if they don't.

These religions do not acknowledge that women have any sort of sexual feelings or desires themselves. You know.... God forbid....
twinmom
5/23/07
8:16 AM
QUOTE(NativeBlue @ May 23 2007, 12:17 AM) [snapback]290718[/snapback]

I can't believe I agree completely with Hammer! Here's one--try taking a teenage girl shopping for a Halloween costume...it's unbelievable what skankalicious outfits are being marketed to "tweens" let alone teens!!! But (with prom dresses, costumes, super lowcut "crack" jeans) as a parent it's your job to say no, keep searching and searching for something that's appropriate, etc. Letting the kid wear this crap is not an option — if it sells companies will just make more of it and you end up with even fewer appropriate choices next year.
I think it's a shame that the principal asked the photos be removed because he thought they were offensive but allowed the students into the prom. If the dresses were too offensive to be posted online then they were obviously not acceptable for a school-sponsored event.
There's where we disagree. I look at these girls and think they must have really low self-esteem and are trying to get attention any way they can. If you know teens you know darn well a lot of their classmates were talking about them in an derogatory manner — but in their minds at least they got noticed...




My daughter is seven, almost eight. I haven't any experience with teens yet, and I don't count myself and high school since things have obviously changed since then. My self esteem comment was made based on myself. I have kind of low self esteem at this point and there is no way I would wear some of those dresses. I felt the girls had high self esteem since they had no problem putting themselves out there like that. Perhaps I should have used a different word, maybe self confidence, no inhibitions. Yeah, it was a wrong word choice. My point was that they were willing to go out on a limb, regardless of what people thought. And if they can take a chance on this, perhaps they can take a chance on something worthwhile, like a futhuring education.



Anyway, we get most of her clothes as hand-me downs and so far this hasn't caused any problems. The problems arise when we need to get a particular article of clothing or shoes. Our last venture was for sandals. I left with a headache. There was probably one pair of appropriate playground sandals on the shelf and neither of us liked them. She wanted ones with a heel on, I of course did not since I don't want her running around in heels. We compromised, she got the ones she wants, but can't wear them to school. Don't even get me started on bathing suit. I don't think string bikinis are appropriate for a seven year old.

BAG-17
5/23/07
8:35 AM
QUOTE(twinmom @ May 22 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]290682[/snapback]

johnq-

. Prom attire will not decide your future and it should not be assumed that just because someone wears something one night that is how they normally dress.

How do you know their attire will not affect their future? We have all seen pictures resurface at the least opportune time. Just ask Brittany S. or any other celebrity. No one knows where their jobs and ambitions will take them. Many good would be canidates have been ruined by pictures from the past. Unfortunately when the photos were published the tabloids didn't blink at the fact they were teens who didn't use discretion. I do hope these photo's are destroyed and not brought back to haunt these ladies.
mam0412
5/23/07
10:19 AM
QUOTE(harv1 @ May 23 2007, 12:37 AM) [snapback]290719[/snapback]
"This whole conservative dress business for girls stems around the males "problems" of not being able to think clearly around sexy women. Problem is in quotes because I don't think it's a real problem - guys just can't help it. It's in their hormones. So, why should we women wear conservative clothes just so men don't have to think about sex around us. It's their problem, not ours. If we feel good in sexy clothes, that doesn't mean we are asking for sex."

There are entire religious faiths built upon that singular tenet. Women are inherently responsible so as not to create the downfall and damnation of men. If they do so, and if men falter, the women pay the consequences. In some religions, it's death; while in others it's being labeled and looked down upon. Women are taught that they must keep the natural lust of men in check... that it is their valor and conversely their sin if they don't.

These religions do not acknowledge that women have any sort of sexual feelings or desires themselves. You know.... God forbid....




Agreed. The Muslim world for sure with all the coverings women are required to wear, but I also believe it hits just about every religion. Couldn't we argue that even in this mostly Christian country, that old taboo is still in existence although not a written rule? Goes back to Eve and the apple and the "shame" of temptation. This blog thread should be evidence enough.

harv1
5/23/07
10:28 AM
Absolutely. That's why I said entire religious faiths (purposely plural). Your Adam and Eve analogy hits the mark. A woman tempting a man leads to the expulsion from Eden and it's downhill from there...
Subsonix
5/23/07
10:49 AM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 22 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]290545[/snapback]

This whole conservative dress business for girls stems around the males "problems" of not being able to think clearly around sexy women. Problem is in quotes because I don't think it's a real problem - guys just can't help it. It's in their hormones. So, why should we women wear conservative clothes just so men don't have to think about sex around us. It's their problem, not ours. If we feel good in sexy clothes, that doesn't mean we are asking for sex.



You make the mistake of equating revealing with sexy, they're two different things. I have no problem thinking around any women. We're not all helpless dogs. You act as if we've never seen naked women before. Whether it's a classy dress or a trashy dress, we all know what's under it. You're not irresistable to everything in pants, so don't flatter yourself.

Why should you wear "conservative" clothes? Because of something called modesty, remember it? Life doesn't revolve around you and how you feel, there are other people in this world too, and when they call you trashy, don't come whining to anyone. When I see a woman dressed like that, I ignore her because she's obviously an attention whore, and lives off the looks she gets. I find it hilarious how women claim it's their right to dress like sex objects and then whine about being treated like sex objects.

I don't care if it's my cousin, my sister or my girlfriend, I'm not letting any of them leave the house dressed like that because it shows a lack of respect, decency and modesty. I respect myself too much to be seen with a woman who shows herself off like a piece of meat.
BeingReal
5/23/07
11:07 AM
QUOTE(harv1 @ May 23 2007, 12:37 AM) [snapback]290719[/snapback]
There are entire religious faiths built upon that singular tenet. Women are inherently responsible so as not to create the downfall and damnation of men.




Ah, the power we women hold! How come my power doesn't work at home?? huh.gif



<just teasing> laugh.gif

mam0412
5/23/07
11:12 AM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 10:49 AM) [snapback]290804[/snapback]


You make the mistake of equating revealing with sexy, they're two different things. I have no problem thinking around any women. We're not all helpless dogs. You act as if we've never seen naked women before. Whether it's a classy dress or a trashy dress, we all know what's under it. You're not irresistable to everything in pants, so don't flatter yourself.

Why should you wear "conservative" clothes? Because of something called modesty, remember it? Life doesn't revolve around you and how you feel, there are other people in this world too, and when they call you trashy, don't come whining to anyone. When I see a woman dressed like that, I ignore her because she's obviously an attention whore, and lives off the looks she gets. I find it hilarious how women claim it's their right to dress like sex objects and then whine about being treated like sex objects.

I don't care if it's my cousin, my sister or my girlfriend, I'm not letting any of them leave the house dressed like that because it shows a lack of respect, decency and modesty. I respect myself too much to be seen with a woman who shows herself off like a piece of meat.




Don't worry, I'd prefer not to be seen with you either. I think your post absolutely proves my point. Where do you think your beliefs about modesty come from?

Subsonix
5/23/07
11:42 AM
QUOTE


Don't worry, I'd prefer not to be seen with you either. I think your post absolutely proves my point. Where do you think your beliefs about modesty come from?


I'm sorry, what point?

Where do my beliefs come from? Call it personal preference and standards. I don't date classless slags who have nothing to be proud of but their bodies (and not even that in some cases).
justplainjoe
5/23/07
11:58 AM
QUOTE(harv1 @ May 23 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]290797[/snapback]
Absolutely. That's why I said entire religious faiths (purposely plural). Your Adam and Eve analogy hits the mark. A woman tempting a man leads to the expulsion from Eden and it's downhill from there...


yes but only because theologians got it wrong. the story is not about temptation and succumbing to it. it is about knowing both good and evil as originating powers. as soon as you believe evil to be a power that is self originating and is on equal par with good, struggling in a never ending battle for supremecy, then you fall under the power of evil as an influence in your life and are expelled from paradise.metaphorically speaking of course.

"yo adam. who told you you were naked?"LOL

Magnus
5/23/07
12:13 PM
QUOTE(johnq @ May 22 2007, 07:38 PM) [snapback]290683[/snapback]
Other than your jab, which was rascist, I have no beef with you on this one. I am offended that people made those remarks about those girls, and I think it is naive at best to think that those remarks were not racially motivated. Do you REALLY think that a photo of a white Hempfield girl in a similar dress would have started this? And do you REALLY think anyone would have made the remarks about that white girl never being able to hold down a professional job, and the other disparaging remarks that were made? REALLY?

By identifying the method you're using as the same despicable method used by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, notable examples among others, that makes me a racist?? Nice subjective determination, john.

Let's keep in mind that you introduced color into the equation. The issue at hand is the innapropriate dress of the girls pictured. Neither color, or any other distinguishing factor, should be part of the discussion. You identified them by their color.

How is that not racist? In the very least, you're making a determination based on the color of their skin.
mam0412
5/23/07
1:51 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 11:42 AM) [snapback]290832[/snapback]


I'm sorry, what point?

Where do my beliefs come from? Call it personal preference and standards. I don't date classless slags who have nothing to be proud of but their bodies (and not even that in some cases).




Put your self-rightousness on hold for a minute and try to open your mind. Why do you believe a woman should dress modestly? What is the basis of your personal preferences and standards? Try to keep your arguments to sound points rather than name calling. Why do you think a woman who doesn't dress to YOUR standards is a classless slag?

Subsonix
5/23/07
2:02 PM
QUOTE


Put your self-rightousness on hold for a minute and try to open your mind. Why do you believe a woman should dress modestly? What is the basis of your personal preferences and standards? Try to keep your arguments to sound points rather than name calling. Why do you think a woman who doesn't dress to YOUR standards is a classless slag?


I'm allowed to have my own standards and thoughts for whatever reasons I wish. I'm not obligated to abandon my preferences for yours. A woman who constantly craves attention by dressing provocatively does not posess the type of personality that I find attractive. It indicates a weak and insecure person, and I don't want a woman like that.
mam0412
5/23/07
2:37 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]290914[/snapback]


I'm allowed to have my own standards and thoughts for whatever reasons I wish. I'm not obligated to abandon my preferences for yours. A woman who constantly craves attention by dressing provocatively does not posess the type of personality that I find attractive. It indicates a weak and insecure person, and I don't want a woman like that.




OK, I'll drop it since apparently a reasonable, intelligent discussion is impossible with you. It's not worth my time or effort. Everyone reading this board clearly must adhere to YOUR standards even though you can't seem to intelligently describe why your standards are such.

Subsonix
5/23/07
2:52 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 23 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]290929[/snapback]




OK, I'll drop it since apparently a reasonable, intelligent discussion is impossible with you. It's not worth my time or effort. Everyone reading this board clearly must adhere to YOUR standards even though you can't seem to intelligently describe why your standards are such.



I can't describe or you can't understand? Does it frighten you that it might take a little more than showing off your body to be attractive? A constant need for attention is a personality flaw and it shows insecurity. I don't know how much further I need to break this down. Have a grown-up explain it to you.
mam0412
5/23/07
3:13 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]290931[/snapback]


I can't describe or you can't understand? Does it frighten you that it might take a little more than showing off your body to be attractive? A constant need for attention is a personality flaw and it shows insecurity. I don't know how much further I need to break this down. Have a grown-up explain it to you.




Until you showed up ramming your male chauvinist rants down everyone's throat, we were having an intelligent and friendly discussion about the roots of why women in society are supposed to dress modestly. But, all you want to do is throw insults at me for not thinking like you and to women who don't dress to YOUR standards. You were apparently insensed by the statment that the root of the modest dress business goes to males thinking the world revolves around them and that women should dress according to their standards. And your statements show to me that you think the world revolves around you and that women should dress to YOUR standards. Thus, you made my point for me. There are societies where women are topless all the time. I guess they too are insecure?



Have a nice day. I won't be discussing this further with you.

Goldilocks
5/23/07
3:19 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 23 2007, 12:51 PM) [snapback]290908[/snapback]

Put your self-rightousness on hold for a minute and try to open your mind. Why do you believe a woman should dress modestly? What is the basis of your personal preferences and standards? Try to keep your arguments to sound points rather than name calling. Why do you think a woman who doesn't dress to YOUR standards is a classless slag?


Why don't you explain why you believe dress standards or dress codes for women should be obsolete and women should be allowed to dress as immodestly as they please, no matter what setting they are in.

Give us some good solid points.

mam0412
5/23/07
3:34 PM
QUOTE(Goldilocks @ May 23 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]290938[/snapback]


Why don't you explain why you believe dress standards or dress codes for women should be obsolete and women should be allowed to dress as immodestly as they please, no matter what setting they are in.

Give us some good solid points.





I never said I thought they should be relaxed or obsolete. I have said I'm not the fashion police. I personally dress quite modestly (I was raised in Lancaster afterall), but I don't believe the world needs to comply to MY standards. All I said was the root of the way we think goes back to bible times with Eve and the apple and that it's rooted around males not being able to think straight around scantily-clad women. And Supersonix or whatever his name is jumped all over me and was spewing insults at me and at women who don't dress to HIS standards. Thus proving my point. He's clearly a male!



Subsonix
5/23/07
3:44 PM
QUOTE

Until you showed up ramming your male chauvinist rants down everyone's throat, we were having an intelligent and friendly discussion about the roots of why women in society are supposed to dress modestly. But, all you want to do is throw insults at me for not thinking like you and to women who don't dress to YOUR standards. You were apparently insensed by the statment that the root of the modest dress business goes to males thinking the world revolves around them and that women should dress according to their standards. And your statements show to me that you think the world revolves around you and that women should dress to YOUR standards. Thus, you made my point for me. There are societies where women are topless all the time. I guess they too are insecure?



Have a nice day. I won't be discussing this further with you.


You have the freedom to dress as you please, and I have the freedom to speak my mind about it. The big stink here was over the comments that people made on those dresses. Yes, this is a free country and you can dress as you like, just don't try to supress the commentary that will follow. I'm not telling anyone how to dress, you're the one playing the thought police.

I never once said women SHOULD dress any certain way, but I reserve the right to ignore, ridicule, laugh at etc, any woman who dresses like a street walker, just like I reserve the right to decide which women I associate with.




QUOTE

I never said I thought they should be relaxed or obsolete. I have said I'm not the fashion police. I personally dress quite modestly (I was raised in Lancaster afterall), but I don't believe the world needs to comply to MY standards. All I said was the root of the way we think goes back to bible times with Eve and the apple and that it's rooted around males not being able to think straight around scantily-clad women. And Supersonix or whatever his name is jumped all over me and was spewing insults at me and at women who don't dress to HIS standards. Thus proving my point. He's clearly a male!


The thing I jumped on you about was your snotty assertion that we lowly men can't possibly determine what 2+2 is while in the presence of a woman dressed like a street walker. You are not a goddess, you are not desired by everything with a Y chromosome. This is what I mean about modesty as a personality trait. I've never seen how you dress yet I can tell you don't have a trace of it.
mam0412
5/23/07
4:04 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 03:44 PM) [snapback]290943[/snapback]


The thing I jumped on you about was your snotty assertion that we lowly men can't possibly determine what 2+2 is while in the presence of a woman dressed like a street walker. You are not a goddess, you are not desired by everything with a Y chromosome. This is what I mean about modesty as a personality trait. I've never seen how you dress yet I can tell you don't have a trace of it.




Again with the insults. Supersonix has such maturity and security doesn't he? Can't make a point without putting someone down so he feels superior. Mr. Supersonix, I learned that theory about a women's place in society in school. I didn't make it up myself. It's pretty common knowledge. And I certainly never claimed to be a goddess or immodest. Just another insult to make him feel superior.

justplainjoe
5/23/07
4:09 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]290914[/snapback]


I'm allowed to have my own standards and thoughts for whatever reasons I wish. I'm not obligated to abandon my preferences for yours. A woman who constantly craves attention by dressing provocatively does not posess the type of personality that I find attractive. It indicates a weak and insecure person, and I don't want a woman like that.


not getting any, huh??

mam0412
5/23/07
4:15 PM
QUOTE(justplainjoe @ May 23 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]290948[/snapback]


not getting any, huh??





LOL!! You are one of my favorite posters on this board!!

Subsonix
5/23/07
4:19 PM
QUOTE(mam0412 @ May 23 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]290950[/snapback]




LOL!! You are one of my favorite posters on this board!!



Suddenly Mz. Mam changes her stance on petty insults in 2 posts flat. I'm not getting any? I'm not the one licking the boots of women I haven't even met. laugh.gif
Alyssarah1
5/23/07
4:29 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]290914[/snapback]

A woman who constantly craves attention by dressing provocatively does not posess the type of personality that I find attractive. It indicates a weak and insecure person,..........


Say what???? ohmy.gif Your lack of knowledge of women is astounding. Did it ever occur to you that it takes a self-assured woman to choose and wear her own style regardless of the accepted norms? Some of us actually wear what makes US feel good without any thought of getting men to lust after us. Don't worry though. If it's well-covered, plain and modest you want, you've got plenty to choose from around here.

mam0412
5/23/07
4:31 PM
QUOTE(Subsonix @ May 23 2007, 04:19 PM) [snapback]290951[/snapback]


Suddenly Mz. Mam changes her stance on petty insults in 2 posts flat. I'm not getting any? I'm not the one licking the boots of women I haven't even met. laugh.gif




Who's flattering themselves now? I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to joe. Oh, that's right, you don't like joe either. Jealous?

Subsonix
5/23/07
4:37 PM
QUOTE(Alyssarah1 @ May 23 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]290954[/snapback]


Say what???? ohmy.gif Your lack of knowledge of women is astounding. Did it ever occur to you that it takes a self-assured woman to choose and wear her own style regardless of the accepted norms? Some of us actually wear what makes US feel good without any thought of getting men to lust after us. Don't worry though. If it's well-covered, plain and modest you want, you've got plenty to choose from around here.



Like I said before, style and skin are two different things. Did it ever occur to you that there may be some middle ground between the McCaskey disgrace and Amish attire?


QUOTE

Who's flattering themselves now? I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to joe. Oh, that's right, you don't like joe either. Jealous?


I knew very much that you were talking to Joe. I was pointing out your hypocrisy of condeming my comments as "insults" and then high fiving Joe over his junior-high jab. Now I realize you're more dense than I had thought.

What am I jealous of? Him being on your good side? This is what I mean about an inflated opinion of yourself. I just don't care that much about you, sorry.
mam0412
5/23/07
4:41 PM
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