Who’s to blame
June 29th, 2008 6:53 pm · 83 comments
I know many of you love New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd about as much as the smell of manure, but she makes an interesting point in her latest column:
Charlie Black crassly argued in Fortune that a terrorist attack would “be a big advantage” for John McCain … .
It’s hard to believe that if Americans get attacked after all these years of getting strip-searched at the airport, they’re going to be filled with confidence at the performance of the Republicans on national security.
Dowd may be right since the country as a whole is leaning more Democrat than Republican these days, but I think the questions about our security would take several months to resonate among the general public. Immediately after a potential terrorist attack, America would probably unite, rally, then support retribution before self-examination; although with the sagging economy and nearly 80 percent of people thinking the U.S.A. is going in the wrong direction, another terrorist attack on a 9/11 scale would be even more demoralizing.
Dowd raises an important question, though, to be considered in the aftermath. Or maybe we should ask this now: If Iran truly is seeking a nuclear weapon and Iran truly wants to use it against American interests and/or Israel, how effective has the war in Iraq really been? Sure, North Korea just moved in a positive direction, but our enemies in the Middle East, the geopolitical region where the 9/11 attack originated, have not been deterred by superior American military might. The Taliban is mounting a serious comeback, Iran apparently continues meddling in Iraqi affairs and pursues nuclear weapons (if the Bush administration is accurate in its reports) and Palestinian separatists in Lebanon prompted a short war with Israel in 2007; all the while the greatest concentration of American forces abroad sit next door.
What’s really changed for the better after five years?
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Tags: Terrorism · Iraq · Republicans · Presidential Politics · John McCain
There are currently 83 comments on this blog postView Topic | Comment on this blogdragonrider
6/29/08
7:17 PM | QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Jun 29 2008, 06:55 PM) [snapback]406359[/snapback]
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post. Iran is not going to attack Israel with a nuke becuase Israel has enough nukes to turn the whole middle east into one big mirror. |
segjt
6/30/08
1:27 AM | QUOTE(Lancaster Online @ Jun 29 2008, 06:55 PM) [snapback]406359[/snapback]
Post your thoughts and comments about this blog post.
Is it really any wonder that the world, especially the likes of Iran, and other rogue nations are thumbing their noses at American military might when for the past 7 years the democrats have done everything in their power to undermine every move President Bush makes. Of course these state sponsors of terrorism are emboldened, they see the bickering between the american political parties as just another version of that comic duo who performed the "who's on first" skit.
What are the dems gonna do if Hussein is elected president and America gets attacked again??? Iran is never going to be a North Korea and capitulate. The next president will have the unfortunate task of dealing with an Iranian attack. Thats a prediction.
Do we really want a guy with a muslim name who promised to side with the muslims when the going gets tough?? |
lee41
6/30/08
2:34 AM | I really wish you could admit failure by Republicans without blaming Democrats.
The Taliban is making a resurgence in Afghanistan because BUSH and his administration decided to divert resources to invade Iraq.
Iraq is a mess because BUSH and his administration failed to implement plans for the post-invasion.
North Korea broke the IAEA seals on its plutonium and created nuclear bombs because BUSH and his administration wanted to show Kim Jong there was a new sheriff in town.
It is Republicans who are saying a terrorist attack will help their political cause. Yet terrorist attacks have increased significantly during Bush's time in office.
Despite all of this, Republicans say they are the only ones who can make us safer. Why - because all their current efforts have worked out so well?
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justplainjoe
6/30/08
2:46 AM | so we can thank the republicans for keeping us safe these past 7 years but if we are attacked again we should vote for republicans because they will keep us safe?
how the bloody 'ell does that make any sense?
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InterestRP08
6/30/08
6:40 AM | First off.... 9/11 was a false flag operation. If you would just open your eyes and watch the actual evidence, including interviews from top rated engineers, demolition crews, security officials, government agents, and the creator of the towers, you would see some information you didn't know right now, and I think this question would fly right out the window.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598
I'm putting some information right in front of you. If you choose to ignore it, and not further educate yourself, I wonder about you and your childrens future.
You didn't even know that building 7 collapsed, either, did you?
Did you ever read the book 'A Foreign Policy of Freedom'? You'll see that since the early 1980's our administration was antagonizing the Middle East. Saddam really was not what you think he is... But if you keep believing what the establishment tells you, you are believing a LIE.
I'm just lettin' ya know... |
AngelFace
6/30/08
9:55 AM | QUOTE(InterestRP08 @ Jun 30 2008, 06:40 AM) [snapback]406422[/snapback] First off.... 9/11 was a false flag operation. If you would just open your eyes and watch the actual evidence, including interviews from top rated engineers, demolition crews, security officials, government agents, and the creator of the towers, you would see some information you didn't know right now, and I think this question would fly right out the window. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598I'm putting some information right in front of you. If you choose to ignore it, and not further educate yourself, I wonder about you and your childrens future. You didn't even know that building 7 collapsed, either, did you? Did you ever read the book 'A Foreign Policy of Freedom'? You'll see that since the early 1980's our administration was antagonizing the Middle East. Saddam really was not what you think he is... But if you keep believing what the establishment tells you, you are believing a LIE. I'm just lettin' ya know...
Drinking Rosie O'Donnell's kool-aid ...
It is posts like this that make me absolutely despair of the future of the nation -- the world???
This "theory" has been debunked over and over and over and over -- not by the administration, but by engineers. Go to www.snopes.com
Just finished a book about the Internet -- The Cult of the Amateur. When we put all our faith and trust in conspiracy theorists and people who do nothing with their lives but speculate and ruminate and formulate and then post online, we are DOOMED.
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InterestRP08
6/30/08
10:11 AM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jun 30 2008, 09:55 AM) [snapback]406466[/snapback]
Drinking Rosie O'Donnell's kool-aid ...
It is posts like this that make me absolutely despair of the future of the nation -- the world???
This "theory" has been debunked over and over and over and over -- not by the administration, but by engineers. Go to www.snopes.com
Just finished a book about the Internet -- The Cult of the Amateur. When we put all our faith and trust in conspiracy theorists and people who do nothing with their lives but speculate and ruminate and formulate and then post online, we are DOOMED.
I'm going to need you to link me to those snopes pages that 'debunk' the truth. I went there, and found nothing.
Trust me, this world IS in despair of it's future. It's people not accepting truth is what is furthering the process.
I'll be reading Andrew's book, and writing a report for you.
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lee41
6/30/08
11:21 AM | Airplane parts everywhere, both outside and inside the Pentagon, on arrival of emergency crews.
Open span steel truss assemblies fail and collapse under fire conditions all the time.
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grieker
6/30/08
11:21 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jun 29 2008, 07:17 PM) [snapback]406368[/snapback] Iran is not going to attack Israel with a nuke becuase Israel has enough nukes to turn the whole middle east into one big mirror.
A mirror so bright it could be called "The Star of Beth--" Na, I'm not going there.
Iran (president in particular) is not stable and doesn't care about retalliation.
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dragonrider
6/30/08
11:26 AM | QUOTE(grieker @ Jun 30 2008, 11:21 AM) [snapback]406505[/snapback]
A mirror so bright it could be called "The Star of Beth--" Na, I'm not going there.
Iran (president in particular) is not stable and doesn't care about retalliation.
I suppose you can scare yourself into anything, but I will say that even with all the crazy leaders in Russia they knew never to attack the US or any ally with nukes becuase of complete anhililation in response. I am sure even the crazy leader of Iran is as smart as the former Russian leaders. But you are convinced in your need to be scared so go suck on your thumb and vote republican. |
lee41
6/30/08
11:35 AM | Ahmadinejad is not in charge of anything. He does not call the shots. |
InterestRP08
6/30/08
11:39 AM | QUOTE(lee41 @ Jun 30 2008, 11:21 AM) [snapback]406504[/snapback] Airplane parts everywhere, both outside and inside the Pentagon, on arrival of emergency crews.
Open span steel truss assemblies fail and collapse under fire conditions all the time.
Can you link me to pictures of the pentagon yard? I can't find any...
Can you link me to span steel truss assemblies that have failed and collapsed under fire conditions?
I'm trying to do some research here...
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dragonrider
6/30/08
11:47 AM | QUOTE(InterestRP08 @ Jun 30 2008, 11:39 AM) [snapback]406513[/snapback]
Can you link me to pictures of the pentagon yard? I can't find any...
Can you link me to span steel truss assemblies that have failed and collapsed under fire conditions?
I'm trying to do some research here...
Don't forget a link to pictures of conspiracy wingnuts. |
lee41
6/30/08
11:56 AM | Google for the photos. I know an emergency worker who was on the scene at the Pentagon after the crash. Plane parts were everywhere.
See Appendix C for information on steel truss failures: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/ |
mam0412
6/30/08
12:03 PM | QUOTE(segjt @ Jun 30 2008, 01:27 AM) [snapback]406411[/snapback]
Is it really any wonder that the world, especially the likes of Iran, and other rogue nations are thumbing their noses at American military might when for the past 7 years the democrats have done everything in their power to undermine every move President Bush makes. Of course these state sponsors of terrorism are emboldened, they see the bickering between the american political parties as just another version of that comic duo who performed the "who's on first" skit.
What are the dems gonna do if Hussein is elected president and America gets attacked again??? Iran is never going to be a North Korea and capitulate. The next president will have the unfortunate task of dealing with an Iranian attack. Thats a prediction.
Do we really want a guy with a muslim name who promised to side with the muslims when the going gets tough??
Do you really think another country cares whether Democrats or Repulicans are in the majority in America? Guess again.
QUOTE(InterestRP08 @ Jun 30 2008, 06:40 AM) [snapback]406422[/snapback] First off.... 9/11 was a false flag operation. If you would just open your eyes and watch the actual evidence, including interviews from top rated engineers, demolition crews, security officials, government agents, and the creator of the towers, you would see some information you didn't know right now, and I think this question would fly right out the window. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598I'm putting some information right in front of you. If you choose to ignore it, and not further educate yourself, I wonder about you and your childrens future. You didn't even know that building 7 collapsed, either, did you? Did you ever read the book 'A Foreign Policy of Freedom'? You'll see that since the early 1980's our administration was antagonizing the Middle East. Saddam really was not what you think he is... But if you keep believing what the establishment tells you, you are believing a LIE. I'm just lettin' ya know...
You and Whirlwind should compare conspiracy notes and get back to us. If we have to read conspiracy theories, it would be best if you and Whirly would come to some conclusion as to which conspiracy theory is really the one. Thanks.
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dragonrider
6/30/08
2:08 PM | QUOTE(grieker @ Jun 30 2008, 12:45 PM) [snapback]406549[/snapback] most people who are informed know that Komeni(sp) is in charge not achmenidinajab(sp) . Iran is a theocracy the secular head has little power compared to the religous head. |
lee41
6/30/08
2:50 PM | QUOTE(InterestRP08 @ Jun 30 2008, 12:11 PM) [snapback]406534[/snapback]
You cannot compare a crash of an aircraft traveling 700 MPH into a reinforced concrete structure specifically designed to withstand a blast to that of a 'normal' crash at <200 MPH.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
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Shirley U Geste
6/30/08
3:12 PM | QUOTE ...but I will say that even with all the crazy leaders in Russia they knew never to attack the US or any ally with nukes becuase of complete anhililation in response. I am sure even the crazy leader of Iran is as smart as the former Russian leaders.
Huge difference between atheists who don't want to annihilate themselves and some religious nuts who think they reach heaven by destroying everything on the planet. Hence they need to take a strong approach against Iran and not North Korea.
QUOTE Do you really think another country cares whether Democrats or Repulicans are in the majority in America? Guess again.
You should watch some foreign news sources. Some of these countries have more U.S. election coverage then we do. The entire world watches our major elections and reports on them on an almost daily basis. It is a huge deal around the world. |
bigstew
6/30/08
4:22 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jun 30 2008, 11:26 AM) [snapback]406508[/snapback] I suppose you can scare yourself into anything, but I will say that even with all the crazy leaders in Russia they knew never to attack the US or any ally with nukes becuase of complete anhililation in response. I am sure even the crazy leader of Iran is as smart as the former Russian leaders. But you are convinced in your need to be scared so go suck on your thumb and vote republican. Ahmadinejad believes it is his destiny to bring the end of the world. He is a nutbag, and his belief in the 12th imam is what makes him different than the russians. |
justplainjoe
6/30/08
4:47 PM | QUOTE(Shirley U Geste @ Jun 30 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]406612[/snapback]
Huge difference between atheists who don't want to annihilate themselves and some religious nuts who think they reach heaven by destroying everything on the planet.
.
that is only partly true. that is the bs they give the suicide bomber to con him into going forward but it is highly doubtful that they believe that themselves.
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jun 30 2008, 04:22 PM) [snapback]406643[/snapback] Ahmadinejad believes it is his destiny to bring the end of the world.
where exactly did you hear that one, radio free israel?LOL
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AngelFace
6/30/08
5:21 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jun 30 2008, 04:47 PM) [snapback]406654[/snapback]
that is only partly true. that is the bs they give the suicide bomber to con him into going forward but it is highly doubtful that they believe that themselves.
where exactly did you hear that one, radio free israel?LOL
Actually I saw the same speech -- it may have been on the BBC, and I will see if I can track it down -- they showed an entire, evidently major speech by Ahmedinijab, in Iran, to his own people. He spoke of ushering in the last Caliphate, elaborating upon it at length. I am sure if you google his name and last Caliphate it might provide a link. |
segjt
6/30/08
6:35 PM | QUOTE(mam0412 @ Jun 30 2008, 12:03 PM) [snapback]406525[/snapback]
Do you really think another country cares whether Democrats or Repulicans are in the majority in America? Guess again.
You and Whirlwind should compare conspiracy notes and get back to us. If we have to read conspiracy theories, it would be best if you and Whirly would come to some conclusion as to which conspiracy theory is really the one. Thanks.
Actually, I do...wasn't it Hamas who said they wanted Obama to win the presidency? Try to focus...danielsan
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justplainjoe
6/30/08
6:44 PM | QUOTE(segjt @ Jun 30 2008, 06:35 PM) [snapback]406693[/snapback]
Actually, I do...wasn't it Hamas who said they wanted Obama to win the presidency? Try to focus...danielsan
would that be the same hamas that was democratically elected in a landslide in an election demanded by bush and condi rice?
and the same hamas that israel just negotiated a prisoner exchange with? |
segjt
6/30/08
7:30 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jun 30 2008, 06:44 PM) [snapback]406694[/snapback]
would that be the same hamas that was democratically elected in a landslide in an election demanded by bush and condi rice?
and the same hamas that israel just negotiated a prisoner exchange with?
That would be the same one....still a terrorist organization and still keeping the palestinians without a country and still killing innocent Isrealis...yep those Obama loving sons of bitches...
try to keep up joe...hahaha |
dragonrider
6/30/08
11:04 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jun 30 2008, 04:22 PM) [snapback]406643[/snapback] Ahmadinejad believes it is his destiny to bring the end of the world. He is a nutbag, and his belief in the 12th imam is what makes him different than the russians. Well go off in your corner and cower in fear and suck your thumb in fear of those terrible Iranians who have no missiles that can even reach the US. And again Komeni is in charge not achmadinejad. Achmadinejab is like a press secretay he is a pretty face, Komeni runs the country. Remember what Gil said Israel is not the US and we have no more need to protect Israel than any other ally. Israelis might be the chosen people but nothing says Israel is Gods chosen country. |
cyberscribbler
7/1/08
8:26 AM | QUOTE(segjt @ Jun 30 2008, 06:35 PM) [snapback]406693[/snapback] QUOTE Do you really think another country cares whether Democrats or Repulicans are in the majority in America? Actually, I do...wasn't it Hamas who said they wanted Obama to win the presidency? Try to focus...danielsan 
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mam0412
7/1/08
8:57 AM | QUOTE(segjt @ Jun 30 2008, 06:35 PM) [snapback]406693[/snapback]
Actually, I do...wasn't it Hamas who said they wanted Obama to win the presidency? Try to focus...danielsan
That doesn't mean they support Democrats over Republicans. You try to focus and look at all views for once.
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justplainjoe
7/1/08
9:04 AM | QUOTE(segjt @ Jun 30 2008, 07:30 PM) [snapback]406699[/snapback] That would be the same one....still a terrorist organization and still keeping the palestinians without a country and still killing innocent Isrealis...yep those Obama loving sons of bitches... try to keep up joe...hahaha how are they keeping the palis without a country. israel is the one who is occupying their land and denying them human rights.
kinda like aparteid but since it is israel it's okay.
try to stay consistent son.
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bigstew
7/1/08
5:15 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jun 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]406751[/snapback] Well go off in your corner and cower in fear and suck your thumb in fear of those terrible Iranians who have no missiles that can even reach the US. And again Komeni is in charge not achmadinejad. Achmadinejab is like a press secretay he is a pretty face, Komeni runs the country. Remember what Gil said Israel is not the US and we have no more need to protect Israel than any other ally. Israelis might be the chosen people but nothing says Israel is Gods chosen country. Tsk tsk. You are so angry when someone just states a plain old fact. And don't pretend that you fully understand the Iranian power structure, or the simple fact that even if Khomeni is the power behind the throne, Ahmadinejab could be echoing his policies.
And yes, Israel isn't the U.S., but Poland wasn't England when Great Britain declared war on Germany as Germany invaded Poland. Kuwait wasn't the rest of the world when the rest of the world retaliated against Iraq in 1991. It isn't always just self defense of one's own territory when war is waged.
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dragonrider
7/2/08
1:18 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 1 2008, 05:15 PM) [snapback]407022[/snapback] Tsk tsk. You are so angry when someone just states a plain old fact. And don't pretend that you fully understand the Iranian power structure, or the simple fact that even if Khomeni is the power behind the throne, Ahmadinejab could be echoing his policies.
And yes, Israel isn't the U.S., but Poland wasn't England when Great Britain declared war on Germany as Germany invaded Poland. Kuwait wasn't the rest of the world when the rest of the world retaliated against Iraq in 1991. It isn't always just self defense of one's own territory when war is waged.
I simply refuse to cower in fear every time someone like achmeninajob says boo when he isn't even in charge of anything. Second Israel with enough nukes to turn the middle east into a giant mirror doesn't need the US to attack Iran for it. But if you and the rest of the Republicans want to cower in fear everytime someone says boo thats fine for you but get your hand out of my pocket for invading foreign countries that never even threatened the US. Republicans have their hands so deep in my pocket that well you really ought to buy me dinner before doing that. |
bigstew
7/2/08
1:37 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 2 2008, 01:18 AM) [snapback]407140[/snapback] I simply refuse to cower in fear Except from republicans. What a tool of the left, you party hack. |
dragonrider
7/2/08
3:49 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 2 2008, 01:37 AM) [snapback]407144[/snapback] Except from republicans. What a tool of the left, you party hack. I quess thats better than being scared of every little creature in the forest that goes boo. You are scared of Koreans who can't even build a bomb that blows up right or a missile that flies right, of Iranians attacking the US even thought they don't have a missile that will reach, or Iraqi's who had no WMD's, of communism taking over the US all the while you give up the constitution and spend our country into bankruptcy financing protection from your boogeymen. |
bigstew
7/2/08
9:12 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 2 2008, 03:49 AM) [snapback]407156[/snapback] I quess thats better than being scared of every little creature in the forest that goes boo. You are scared of Koreans who can't even build a bomb that blows up right or a missile that flies right, of Iranians attacking the US even thought they don't have a missile that will reach, or Iraqi's who had no WMD's, of communism taking over the US all the while you give up the constitution and spend our country into bankruptcy financing protection from your boogeymen. Let's see. You think its better to be scared of half your own countrymen, than foreign nationals who want to kill westerners and die doing so(even though it happens far away and could never ever make it to our own country)
Brilliant sweetie. 
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dragonrider
7/2/08
9:49 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 2 2008, 09:12 PM) [snapback]407516[/snapback] Let's see. You think its better to be scared of half your own countrymen, than foreign nationals who want to kill westerners and die doing so(even though it happens far away and could never ever make it to our own country) Brilliant sweetie. |
bigstew
7/6/08
7:03 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 2 2008, 09:49 PM) [snapback]407521[/snapback] Who is destroying my constitution Iraqi's or republicans, who is driving my country into bankruptcy Iraq or republicans, who killed more americans Iraq or an american president who got us involved in an illegal war of agression and occupation. So who should I be afraid of , a country which never killed a single american before we invaded it or republicans who have done what Iraq never did. Research your facts in your post. I'll give you another try. |
dragonrider
7/7/08
12:27 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 6 2008, 07:03 PM) [snapback]408450[/snapback] Research your facts in your post. I'll give you another try. Whats to research
Constitution: Illegal search and seizure, illegal wiretapping, extroidinary rendition,
Running the country bankrupt cutting taxes while trying to finance a war on credit
Loss of life Iraq had no involvement in 9/11 but we have lost over 4000 dead and thousands more wounded.
Torture and murder of prisoners in our charge
Hiding prisoners from the International Red Cross
As I said I am more afraid of Repugnicans than Iraqi's, Iragi's have never attacked the US.
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AngelFace
7/7/08
1:05 AM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 7 2008, 12:27 AM) [snapback]408493[/snapback]
Whats to research
Constitution: Illegal search and seizure, illegal wiretapping, extroidinary rendition,
Running the country bankrupt cutting taxes while trying to finance a war on credit
Loss of life Iraq had no involvement in 9/11 but we have lost over 4000 dead and thousands more wounded.
Torture and murder of prisoners in our charge
Hiding prisoners from the International Red Cross
As I said I am more afraid of Repugnicans than Iraqi's, Iragi's have never attacked the US.
murder of prisoners? Document, please. |
dragonrider
7/7/08
1:21 AM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 7 2008, 01:05 AM) [snapback]408499[/snapback]
murder of prisoners? Document, please. Meical autopsy of prisoners who died in american custody many were listed as murder and the result of severe kicking and beatings that caused organ failure and internal bleeding. |
bigstew
7/7/08
7:12 PM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 7 2008, 01:05 AM) [snapback]408499[/snapback]
murder of prisoners? Document, please. She won't document. Forget it. |
AngelFace
7/7/08
9:50 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 7 2008, 01:21 AM) [snapback]408502[/snapback]
Meical autopsy of prisoners who died in american custody many were listed as murder and the result of severe kicking and beatings that caused organ failure and internal bleeding.
Document, please. This should have been front page news.
Internal injuries and organ failures also result from bomb blasts and concussive injuries. Plus, how many have died in U.S. custody? |
InterestRP08
7/7/08
10:59 PM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 7 2008, 09:50 PM) [snapback]408858[/snapback] Document, please. This should have been front page news.
Lots of things should be front page news. But they will never be front page news when all of our media outlets continue to be owned by the people allowing these things to happen.
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dragonrider
7/8/08
1:08 AM | I don't remember the exact source it was either the NYT or WP. But the article was out there including the description of one prisoner who was kicked until his internal organs liquified. Found it July 8,2008 NPR report by John McChesney Death of Iraqi Prisoner ruled homicide by NCIS/ Prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi 2003 Avu Ghraib was labeled a homicide due to blunt force trauma to the torso and complicated by compromised respiration autopsy photos show lacerations and multiple bruises on jamadi's feet, thighs and arms. His most significant injuries five broken ribs The fractures were probably caused by ta slow deliberate application of force, such as someone kneeling on his chest. How jamadi was shackled makes it very difficult to breathe because you are suspended in a very awkward position, when you combine it with having a hood over your head and having broken ribs, its fairly clear that this death was cused by asphyxia because he couldn' breathe properly.
Happy 
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dragonrider
7/8/08
1:34 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 7 2008, 07:12 PM) [snapback]408824[/snapback] She won't document. Forget it. And your response to the rest of the list, bankrupt US, constitution in taters, torture of prisoners, illegal rendition, unlawful search and wiretaps. |
bigstew
7/8/08
6:10 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 8 2008, 01:34 AM) [snapback]408899[/snapback] And your response to the rest of the list, bankrupt US, constitution in taters, torture of prisoners, illegal rendition, unlawful search and wiretaps. Your burden of proof sweetie. That was the whole point of the document comment. |
dragonrider
7/9/08
12:49 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 8 2008, 06:10 PM) [snapback]409126[/snapback] Your burden of proof sweetie. That was the whole point of the document comment. |
bigstew
7/9/08
6:30 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 9 2008, 12:49 AM) [snapback]409197[/snapback] what you need articles showing we used renditions, a quick google search will get that for you. Countries economy bankrupt, you ain't picked up a paper in the last two months. Illegal wiretapping you aint been following the fisa bill and the requirement that we give immunity to telecomes, you don't give immunity to innocent peeps. Don't be so lazy pick up a newspaper and read. Thanks, I thought so.  |
dragonrider
7/9/08
8:49 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 9 2008, 06:30 PM) [snapback]409566[/snapback] Thanks, I thought so.
Economy: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the two largest holders of mortages stock value drops by 60% due to mortage crisis. Gas gone from $2 to $4 a gallon. Oil from $40 a barrel to $120 a barrel. All three american auto makers in financial turmoil
Rendition: Italy has charges against american service members for illegal rendition. Also Canadian citizen obducted in NY airport is transported to a middle east country where he can and was tortured. Canadian government ends up apologizing and paying a large sum to the man in compensation for his illegal rendition and torture at the hands of Americas actions. They call water boarding , Chinese Water Torture becuase it is torture a finding supported by american case law of a prison guard in Texas and against Japanese servicememebers tried as war criminals after WWII
Torture: Recent news of Americans interogation techniques were taken from a list of Chinese torture techniques used in the Korean War to force American GI's to falsely admit to war crimes. The recent release of information that these torture techniques were developed and implemented at the behest of the top men of the government including, Cheney, Gonzales, Yu and Rice.
Wire tapping all the telecoms with exception of Quest readily admit that they released their telecoms to CIA at the request of the government without FISA approval. The telecoms felt they were doing the right thing but the procedure was not within the confines of legality of FISA
Habeus Corpus: 7 years and counting no court appearance with three supreme court rulings that the procedures set up violate american constitution.
These and other news stories are readily available even in the conservative Lancaster Newspaper.
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jetscott
7/9/08
9:21 PM | if this was happening with a dem in office they would want him hung. But we all know getting a BJ is so much worse |
dragonrider
7/9/08
11:07 PM | Does anyone even know what our present federal deficit is with the military spending included?  |
dragonrider
7/10/08
10:05 AM | QUOTE(podunk @ Jul 10 2008, 07:16 AM) [snapback]409768[/snapback] that does not include military spending which is off budget. |
InterestRP08
7/10/08
2:10 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 9 2008, 12:49 AM) [snapback]409197[/snapback] Don't be so lazy pick up a newspaper and read.
Just a side note: Newspapers are NOT credible sources of information. They ALLLLLL have ownership they have to bow down to. The owners of the papers CONTROL what you think. Same as the TV.
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bigstew
7/10/08
10:14 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 9 2008, 07:49 PM) [snapback]409627[/snapback] Since you are unable to pick up a newspaper:
Economy: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the two largest holders of mortages stock value drops by 60% due to mortage crisis. Gas gone from $2 to $4 a gallon. Oil from $40 a barrel to $120 a barrel. All three american auto makers in financial turmoil
Rendition: Italy has charges against american service members for illegal rendition. Also Canadian citizen obducted in NY airport is transported to a middle east country where he can and was tortured. Canadian government ends up apologizing and paying a large sum to the man in compensation for his illegal rendition and torture at the hands of Americas actions. They call water boarding , Chinese Water Torture becuase it is torture a finding supported by american case law of a prison guard in Texas and against Japanese servicememebers tried as war criminals after WWII
Torture: Recent news of Americans interogation techniques were taken from a list of Chinese torture techniques used in the Korean War to force American GI's to falsely admit to war crimes. The recent release of information that these torture techniques were developed and implemented at the behest of the top men of the government including, Cheney, Gonzales, Yu and Rice.
Wire tapping all the telecoms with exception of Quest readily admit that they released their telecoms to CIA at the request of the government without FISA approval. The telecoms felt they were doing the right thing but the procedure was not within the confines of legality of FISA
Habeus Corpus: 7 years and counting no court appearance with three supreme court rulings that the procedures set up violate american constitution.
These and other news stories are readily available even in the conservative Lancaster Newspaper.
sources please, God! |
dragonrider
7/10/08
10:22 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 10 2008, 10:14 PM) [snapback]410146[/snapback] sources please, God! Lancaster news pick up the paper. Gawwwwdddddd don't be so dense. |
bigstew
7/10/08
10:24 PM | I repeat. I thought so. |
dragonrider
7/10/08
10:34 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 10 2008, 10:24 PM) [snapback]410149[/snapback] I repeat. I thought so. Have you heard of the wall street journal the stock quotes for fannie may and freddie mac are right in there . If its an obscure citation I see your point for asking source. Stock quotes are readily available to anyone who is not being obtuse.
The canadian reditioned out of NY airport gee why don't you do a search of the NY Times.
If you think I am going to cite every item as to news source that is readily available to you with a quick google then you are an idiot along with being lazy.
Since you are lazy I'll give you a start:
Maher Arar June 6 2008 NYTimes
Fannnie Mae Freddie Mac July 11,2008
Gasbuddy.com charts gas price from 2.13 per gallon 18 months ago to 4.02 per gallon today
Torture chinese list from Korean war July 2,2008 NYTimes.
Its real easy Stew you just do a google search of news papers and up it comes try it sometime.
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dragonrider
7/10/08
11:01 PM | wiretapping: History Commons NYTImes archive
CSI agent trial in Italy May 15 2008 NYtimes
You need more do your own work I already read these articles once, I read the NYTimes every day and the Washington Post once a week when available.
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dragonrider
7/11/08
10:09 PM | So I cite everything for you and what ? |
dragonrider
7/12/08
1:57 PM | Hey do you need me to cite you the source that shows Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae getting bailed out by the federal government to the possible tune of 5.2 trillion additional federal debt.
Or the failure of the nations largest bank, Indie Mac
Or the International Red Cross filing a report with the CIA stating that US Government at the highest levels has authorized and committed torture against prisoners of war and may be subject to war crimes trials when they leave office.
Source NYTimes yesterday and today.
But hey I knew you weren't going to respond becuase you have no answers
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dragonrider
7/12/08
2:58 PM | Fannie mae and Freddie mac stock down 80% from a year ago todays news.
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dragonrider
7/13/08
3:21 PM | Yeah what I thought you have no anwers only intimidation techniques. How Sad  |
bigstew
7/13/08
9:04 PM | Sorry that I have a life and spent the weekend on the river(no internet out there). You're right about sad though. Still no support or links after all your blathering.
Pitiful, give up hon. |
dragonrider
7/13/08
10:50 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 13 2008, 09:04 PM) [snapback]410845[/snapback] Sorry that I have a life and spent the weekend on the river(no internet out there). You're right about sad though. Still no support or links after all your blathering.
Pitiful, give up hon. Well I can see why you are so ignorant you can't even read. |
bigstew
7/14/08
6:04 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 13 2008, 10:50 PM) [snapback]410875[/snapback] Well I can see why you are so ignorant you can't even read. Thanks for proving my point. |
AngelFace
7/14/08
10:01 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 12 2008, 01:57 PM) [snapback]410551[/snapback]
Hey do you need me to cite you the source that shows Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae getting bailed out by the federal government to the possible tune of 5.2 trillion additional federal debt.
Or the failure of the nations largest bank, Indie Mac
Or the International Red Cross filing a report with the CIA stating that US Government at the highest levels has authorized and committed torture against prisoners of war and may be subject to war crimes trials when they leave office.
Source NYTimes yesterday and today.
But hey I knew you weren't going to respond becuase you have no answers
MISINFORMATION ALERT!!!
Indie Mac is NOT the largest bank. It is not in the TOP 30.
Overreaction and exaggeration do not help the situation.
www.infoplease.com
Top ten banks: Citigroup, Bank of America, J.P. Morgan Chase, Wachovia, Taunus Corp., Wells Fargo, HSBC N. America, U.S. Bancorp, Bank of NY Mellon, Suntrust Inc.
The Internet and online forums are NOT the best sources of information. Try the Wall Street Journal or Forbes Magazine or Money magazine. No lies, no spin, no "the sky is falling". |
dragonrider
7/14/08
10:47 PM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 14 2008, 06:04 PM) [snapback]411206[/snapback] Thanks for proving my point. You have no point except the top of your head. |
Bigmaclender2
7/15/08
2:38 AM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 14 2008, 10:01 PM) [snapback]411270[/snapback]
MISINFORMATION ALERT!!!
Indie Mac is NOT the largest bank. It is not in the TOP 30.
Overreaction and exaggeration do not help the situation.
www.infoplease.com
Top ten banks: Citigroup, Bank of America, J.P. Morgan Chase, Wachovia, Taunus Corp., Wells Fargo, HSBC N. America, U.S. Bancorp, Bank of NY Mellon, Suntrust Inc.
The Internet and online forums are NOT the best sources of information. Try the Wall Street Journal or Forbes Magazine or Money magazine. No lies, no spin, no "the sky is falling".
I don't want to break your heart but Citigroup is not the largest bank either here in the US. They were last year-look for 2008. The new leader by far is Bank of America.
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AngelFace
7/15/08
9:38 AM | QUOTE(Bigmaclender2 @ Jul 15 2008, 02:38 AM) [snapback]411321[/snapback]
I don't want to break your heart but Citigroup is not the largest bank either here in the US. They were last year-look for 2008. The new leader by far is Bank of America.
Citigroup's recent financial "re-adjustment" might have reversed 1 and 2 -- stats come out quarterly and we are mid-quarter.
The point was that Indie Mac was not even in the top 30, and Dragon stated they were the largest bank.
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cyberscribbler
7/15/08
11:01 AM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 15 2008, 09:38 AM) [snapback]411378[/snapback] The point was that Indie Mac was not even in the top 30, and Dragon stated they were the largest bank. Indie Mac is the second largest bank failure in US history. as reported here
Pretty significant if taken in context of the great depression's string of bank failures.
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dragonrider
7/15/08
2:24 PM | QUOTE(cyberscribbler @ Jul 15 2008, 11:01 AM) [snapback]411409[/snapback] Indie Mac is the second largest bank failure in US history. as reported herePretty significant if taken in context of the great depression's string of bank failures. |
Lysol54
7/15/08
4:37 PM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 15 2008, 09:38 AM) [snapback]411378[/snapback]
Citigroup's recent financial "re-adjustment" might have reversed 1 and 2 -- stats come out quarterly and we are mid-quarter.
The point was that Indie Mac was not even in the top 30, and Dragon stated they were the largest bank.
Or could it be you don't know what your talking about either, but have enough balls to try and go after other people about it. Either get your facts straight with it, or move on.
QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 13 2008, 09:04 PM) [snapback]410845[/snapback] Sorry that I have a life and spent the weekend on the river(no internet out there). You're right about sad though. Still no support or links after all your blathering.
Pitiful, give up hon.
Because we all know that would make a world of differance to you. You'd just sit here and make excuses why those links weren't good enough. Maybe you should have just stayed down at the river?
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AngelFace
7/15/08
8:34 PM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Jul 15 2008, 04:37 PM) [snapback]411570[/snapback] Or could it be you don't know what your talking about either, but have enough balls to try and go after other people about it. Either get your facts straight with it, or move on. Because we all know that would make a world of differance to you. You'd just sit here and make excuses why those links weren't good enough. Maybe you should have just stayed down at the river?
Get a grip. I am no financial maven or MBA, but I am an investor, read the financial news sources I recommended, and the list of banks, in their order, complete with their assets is available at the site cited. And, if you are paying attention, Dragon already acknowledged what he/she MEANT to say. |
Lysol54
7/15/08
9:25 PM | QUOTE(AngelFace @ Jul 15 2008, 08:34 PM) [snapback]411616[/snapback]
Get a grip. I am no financial maven or MBA, but I am an investor, read the financial news sources I recommended, and the list of banks, in their order, complete with their assets is available at the site cited. And, if you are paying attention, Dragon already acknowledged what he/she MEANT to say.
Yeah i saw that, you were the one jumping all over them to begin with, thinking you knew what you were talking about. It was clear you didn't know either, but had no problem spouting off and pointing out his mistake. Then you get called on it and you just start spinning.
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AngelFace
7/15/08
9:43 PM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Jul 15 2008, 09:25 PM) [snapback]411625[/snapback]
Yeah i saw that, you were the one jumping all over them to begin with, thinking you knew what you were talking about. It was clear you didn't know either, but had no problem spouting off and pointing out his mistake. Then you get called on it and you just start spinning.
Actually, I was not going to argue the 1 and 2 slots, because the point was that Indie Bank is not one of even the top 30 banks. Bigmac pointed out that a list he saw had Bank of America #1 -- I think myself that his is the old list, but it is not important to the Indie Bank issue.
The list I cited and quoted is dated May 30, 2008.
As for spinning, where's the spin? And where's the "jumping all over them"? I posted a list. And I think it's important that we don't add more panic to an already volative financial situation by having people think that the largest bank in the U.S. has failed, don't you? |
bigstew
7/15/08
10:09 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 14 2008, 10:47 PM) [snapback]411285[/snapback] You have no point except the top of your head. Wow, it continues to spout brilliance.
Sidenote: Typing a story from the middle of some text, and typing AP beside is not much backup(just a hint)
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AngelFace
7/16/08
1:26 AM | QUOTE(Lysol54 @ Jul 15 2008, 09:25 PM) [snapback]411625[/snapback]
Yeah i saw that, you were the one jumping all over them to begin with, thinking you knew what you were talking about. It was clear you didn't know either, but had no problem spouting off and pointing out his mistake. Then you get called on it and you just start spinning.
Federal Reserve System, National Information Center
June 30, 2008
The list I posted is the correct list - FYI
No spin - check it yourself. Surely the Fed's list is the correct one. |
dragonrider
7/16/08
1:31 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 15 2008, 10:09 PM) [snapback]411629[/snapback] Wow, it continues to spout brilliance. Sidenote: Typing a story from the middle of some text, and typing AP beside is not much backup(just a hint) |
dragonrider
7/16/08
1:43 AM | QUOTE(bigstew @ Jul 15 2008, 10:09 PM) [snapback]411629[/snapback] Wow, it continues to spout brilliance. Sidenote: Typing a story from the middle of some text, and typing AP beside is not much backup(just a hint) |
bigstew
7/16/08
8:05 PM | QUOTE really its not that hard. What? Spelling Google?
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justplainjoe
7/16/08
8:30 PM | QUOTE(dragonrider @ Jul 16 2008, 01:31 AM) [snapback]411660[/snapback] .....really its not that hard.
that's what his girlfriend said.LOL
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bigstew
7/16/08
9:50 PM | QUOTE(justplainjoe @ Jul 16 2008, 08:30 PM) [snapback]412013[/snapback]
that's what his girlfriend said.LOL
nice |
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